87. All about Speech Language Pathology with Rebecca Drory, SLP
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Ever wondered if your child needs speech therapy or are you curious about what your child really needs to know before entering kindergarten? Tune in for an engaging episode this week as Rebecca Drory, a speech language pathologist, dive into the unique world of speech pathology.
As the owner and founder of Bespoke Speech, a distinguished private speech therapy practice in Midtown Toronto, Rebecca has made it her mission to empower parents and caregivers in supporting their children's communication skills. You don’t want to miss this week’s episode as we explore all you need to know about the field of speech therapy, including what role parents play in speech therapy, what speech sounds are, and who the ideal patient is for speech therapy.
✨This episode is sponsored by Embodia https://www.embodiaapp.com/ - use code momstrength to save $20 off your first month’s Tier 3 membership.
✨Click here to learn more about How I use Embodia as a Pelvic Physiotherapist!
About Rebecca:
Rebecca Drory is a passionate preschool speech language pathologist. She owns and operates Bespoke Speech, a distinguished private speech therapy practice located in midtown Toronto. With a mission to empower parents and caregivers in supporting their children's communication skills, Rebecca and her small team of amazing speech therapists offer speech therapy to preschools who have a variety of speech needs. Rebecca is also the creator of Bespoke Speech's signature interactive baby program called Babbling Babies. This innovative Baby program was born out of Rebecca's personal experience as a mom on back-to-back maternity leaves with her two sons and her extensive expertise in the field of speech therapy. The program offers a place for caregivers and their babies to connect and bond together while offering tips and ideas to encourage their baby's play and language development.
Connect with Rebecca:
—Instagram @bespoke.speech
—Website https://www.bespokespeech.ca/
Connect with Surabhi:
Website: https://www.thepassionatephysio.ca
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Surabhi: Welcome to Mom Strength, a podcast and movement to empower, educate, and showcase mom strength inside and out. I'm your host, Surabhi, Veitch, physiotherapist and fitness coach, also known as the Passionate Physio. Join me for discussions on movement, mindset, and motherhood where we raise the bar and challenge the [00:01:00] status quo.
Get ready for expert interviews and real honest conversations where we explore physical, mental, and emotional health. Let's celebrate the beautiful diversity and common experiences in all of our journeys. Let's do this.
Surabhi: [00:00:00] Hey y'all. Welcome back to another episode of Mom Strength. I'm your host, Surabhi Veitch and I am here today with Rebecca Drory who is a speech language pathologist. And she is awesome and she's amazing with kids. I can tell you firsthand. Um, she owns and operates Bespoke speech, a distinguished private speech therapy practice in Midtown Toronto with a mission to empower parents and caregivers in supporting their children's communication skills.
Rebecca and her small team of amazing speech therapists offer speech therapy to preschools who have a variety of speech needs. Rebecca's also the creator of bespoke speeches. Signature Interactive baby program called Babbling Babies. This innovative baby program is born out of Rebecca's personal experience as a mom on back-to-back maternity leaves with two sons and our extensive expertise in the field of speech therapy.
This program offers a place for caregivers and their babies to connect and bond together while [00:01:00] offering tips and ideas to encourage their babies play and language development. Amazing. You've done so much. I'm so excited to have you on here, Rebecca. Thanks for having me. So can we, let's get started with, yeah.
Who is an ideal client to go to? Speech language, um, speech therapy.
Rebecca: That's a great starting question. I think my thoughts on speech therapy has. Changed ever since I became a mom.
Surabhi: Mm-hmm. I think
Rebecca: before I became a mom, I would've said anyone who is not meeting their communication milestones. Um, that's another whole tangent on itself because if you go and Google online, you're gonna see different milestones.
Um, but for me, since I became a mother, I think the number one question that parents should ask themselves is. Is my child frustrated by their communication or am I frustrated by their communication or both? And I think if anyone in the family is frustrated or [00:02:00] feeling, um, upset or has a lot of questions, that's the time to get a speech language pathology, speech language pathologist involved.
Um, I'm all about bringing anxiety levels down for parents. Yes. Um, and so that's how I see speech therapy now is you're not sure you're frustrated. I. If you're anxious, you're nervous about it, get it done.
Surabhi: Yeah. And because often in the medical system, they'll wait till you're already not meeting the milestones.
And sometimes those milestones are, I don't know what you think of them, but sometimes I'm like, isn't that kinda late to then get help or isn't it better to get help earlier if you can? Um, but there's probably a gray area between like rushing to get help, you know, because there's a lot of parents who put so much pressure on their like tiny babies to figure everything out right away too.
Mm-hmm. So where, how do you, how do you play with that?
Rebecca: Great question too. So I think let's look at both ends of like rushing too early or waiting too late. Let's look at both ends. So too late. [00:03:00] Um. Again, that's why online is so difficult to really parse out and why meeting one-on-one with a speech therapist who can look at your child with their lens only on your child.
Um, different schools, depending on where you are, whether you're in Ontario. States is a whole other thing. Another province is. So another thing, so for example, the school board, they base their need because they have really, it's publicly funded, uh, service. Um, you were waiting up until, depending on the school board, up to four years.
To get speech therapy. Wow. So base, because their wait lists are so high. Let's say in one school board, they have very strict parameters on what you will be eligible for. So for example, an R sound right, they will say not until eight. Why not until eight? Because that's when it's considered significant, like significant, really severe.
Whereas what we know in terms of typical development for a child R should be in by five years of age. So [00:04:00] that's why it's so tricky. That's why there's this gray area. It's like, well, the school board is saying not until eight, but this person, this private SLP is saying five. As a parent, who do I listen to and think?
I think it's really important to, again, is start young and we'll go to the other side. Is. You have to really understand where is that funding coming from? Um, because you don't wanna wait until eight because the longer you wait. You also have, especially with school aged children, with whatever the area is, you also have to consider their awareness, their self-awareness.
You have to look at confidence, you have to look at self-motivation. So when I work with an 8-year-old versus a five-year-old, I'm not just, you know, we work with a lot of speech sound disorder, so a lot of working on saying a specific sound. Accurately. And we see the biggest difference between a five and an 8-year-old working on the same sounds.
Um, the 8-year-old. We really have to, um, acknowledge and, and have it as part of our [00:05:00] therapy, um, session, working on confidence and making, making sure that the child is motivated, whereas the five-year-old has three years less of un of being aware that it's a problem.
Surabhi: Right.
Rebecca: I'll go to the other end of the spectrum in terms of, well, am I, am I bringing my child in, whether they're a baby or a toddler, or a three-year-old or a five-year-old?
Am I doing it too early? And again, I think that is such an individualistic response. Again, I'm gonna go back to that frustration piece or that question of, I think we're in a realm, I think we're in the parenting style for, for many people at least the families that come in to see us. They're highly educated, um, parents who are information seekers, and I think we have social media and the internet to think for that.
And I think it's very easy to get the information and that can also breed a lot of anxiety. I don't know any SOPs, at least in [00:06:00] Toronto, at least whoever I interact with, whether it's publicly funded or privately funded speech therapy, I don't know any SLP that will keep a child on their caseload if there's not a concern.
Surabhi (2): Mm.
Rebecca: So I always say if your child is young, it's never too young to go in for an assessment. What the assessment does is it provides information for the parent to understand, was my concern correct? Do I have, do I, do I need, um, will my child benefit from therapy or , or is it my anxiety and everything is okay?
So I always say it's never too early because think there's only two outcomes, one. Think of how good it will feel if your speech language pathologist says, Hey, guess what? Everything's great. Your child is doing wonderful. You, your child will not benefit from speech therapy. Here's my door. Yeah. You know, go on your way.
Yeah. Whereas the other way, let's say we catch something [00:07:00] at 18 months of age or two years of age and say, Hey, you know what? I really love these skills. They're going very well, but it's these two skills that I think we can benefit, and that's why you have all those questions. Um, and your child can benefit from therapy, and then you, and then the child, then the parent can gain all those tools to help their child, and so it's never too
Surabhi: early.
I love that you mentioned that because as a parent. Myself whose child has been to a speech therapist, um, speech language pathologist. One thing that I can say is, you know, we often listen to our doctors or pediatricians who are like, ah, they're fine. You know, it's not till this age. But then once you get to that age, then wait.
Lists are so long and then you're waiting another year to actually get help. And so I kind of wish that I had listened to my mommy gut. Just gone earlier. The other thing is you guys are amazing and you have the skills, like you're just like magicians and you know, all the skills and tricks to get [00:08:00] to teach kids.
And so as parents, we don't necessarily know that. Yeah. And so within one session you can make so much change and. I'm just thinking of how frustrating, frustrating it was for us as parents when it was like something as simple as like fronting my, which my, you know, first child had and, you know, for the longest time instead of cake, she would say Tate, so sounds were tea.
And literally within the first session, like she figured that out. And so I, my anxiety would've helped. It would've helped my anxiety as a new mom to actually go seek help earlier. And I wish that I even knew to do that. So I hope that people listening to this episode don't feel like, um, they're bothering because that's what I kind of felt like, oh, I don't wanna waste their time's.
Not that bad. And so that's kind of what I felt. I'm like, and I'm coming from the perspective of a physiotherapist and. It's interesting 'cause I would've said the same thing. If you're worried about your child's physical development, why not go see somebody, an OT [00:09:00] pt, get an assessment, and then if you don't need help, then you don't need help.
But, um, I love the, the way that you approach that I. And the funding aspect, which a lot of people don't think about is why is the TDSB or different school boards recommending don't get help till this age? Just 'cause they probably can't afford to give your child that help until that age, until it's more severe.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I have a question for you. What should parents look for when, considering you already mentioned this, um, you know, what, which they should consider whether or not they should reach out, reach out to a therapist, but. Can you tell me what that support should look like? So do they go directly, can they directly go contact a speech language pathologist or do they need a referral?
Rebecca: Okay, great question. So. Can we talk about Ontario? Yes. Because I know Ontario, but I think if you're in another province, the first thing that you should do is, I think, is do some research on publicly funded and privately funded in your, in your [00:10:00] individual area, because it's all so different what's public.
Um, from a private perspective, you do. The only reason why you would need a doctor's referral is in terms of your individual. If you have, um. Individual private health insurance dollars, right? Some if you're looking at the private realm, which is out of pocket, some insurance providers require a doctor to write off that the child needs speech therapy, right?
It's like a prescription. Um, other insurances do not. But in terms of reaching out to a speech language pathologist privately, you do not need a doctor's referral. I do not need one. Amazing. If the parent has concerns. That's enough. That's enough. I actually also think it is, I know from the preschool it, it's the same in the public sector.
In Ontario, we have two options. If your child is under jk, under junior kindergarten, you can [00:11:00] go to the program, the preschool, speech and language program, and I know that you do not need a doctor's referral. You just need to be within that postal code. You also do not need a health card. Oh, um, you do not.
You can self-refer. It depends on where you are in the city of Toronto. Um, and I also know, um, you know, the Toronto District School Board, Toronto Catholic School Board, I'm almost positive if York Durham Peel, um, you need to be nominated either by, for speech services, you either need to be nominated by your child's teacher.
Or you
need to be nominated by the the school's principal.
Surabhi: Okay.
Rebecca: So doctors are not necessary, not involved with that. Necessary unless you need that referral slip for your own insurance.
Surabhi: Okay. Okay. So that at least removes some of the barriers. And I think for anybody who's listening in the states, everything is private, so I'm pretty sure there's, that's a whole separate.
Way to access.
Rebecca: I don't even know. They, um, [00:12:00] I don't even know anything. I know it's very different how you access speech therapy in the states, um, based on own, and you're
Surabhi: provincially regulated, right? Yes. So you can only see clients within the province of Ontario. Okay. That's good to know too. Mm-hmm.
Um,
so tell me about how do parents, what are the parents' role in speech therapy?
Is this a child's homework or is this the parents' homework or? I'm just thinking 'cause a lot of your um, parents that are coming are probably busy educated. Mm-hmm. Have jobs. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes it can be overwhelming to think, Ugh, I'm already doing so much. I have this other extra thing that I'm gonna have to do now and mm-hmm.
I think that might be a barrier for some people even starting speech therapy because it's time out of your own hands too.
Rebecca: Yes. So I think this is really tough and as a parent, I will admit it. I am the worst parent for homework. Everyone's really shocked because I give home practice all day long and we entrench it in daily routines like [00:13:00] bath time meals.
Um, and it's hard because if we, let's say we look at the preschool side, children who are under four, um, we know the research shows, the empirical evidence shows that. Children, no matter what the delay is in communication, whether it's speech sounds or language, which is, um, the ability to use words or the ability to use grammar, um, things like stuttering or social interaction skills, it's, they learn best with their parents.
So this term, you know, parents will drop their child off to daycare and then they don't see them again until five. So it's really important that when you only have that a couple of minutes. To do, you know, you're doing mealtime bath time and then you're gonna bed. Yeah. That's enough time to make a significant impact on your child's communication.
So what we do is, what we're really known for is parents as partners. Um, it feels, it rarely never happens, [00:14:00] mostly with the older children, but from a preschool child, anyone under four is how we help. Is that the child? The parent is always in the room. During the speech therapy sessions, taking an active role so they know exactly how to support their child when they get home.
During these small little moments that you're actually present and able to be with your child because you work full-time and you have a very busy schedule, that is the only way that you're gonna see success. Um, and the only way that you're gonna get out of the therapy room is we always say five minutes a day, five to 10 minutes a day.
That's enough. And I think when you take that chronic pressure off that you don't need to sit down and do speech therapy, you're gonna implement those goals that we've set for your child during snack or while, while you're reading a book before it's time to go to bed, you're gonna learn the best ways to use that book with your child so that you are really increasing their communication goals, um, during set times.
Surabhi: Yeah. And it's [00:15:00] woven in within things you're already doing everything. So there's no, because I think mental image of homework, we think it has to be the separate, dedicated half an hour. And I love when you're actually talking 'cause there's so many parallels between the work that you do and I do and mm-hmm.
Because I support a lot of new moms, I'm like, you don't need a half hour at the gym. You can weave in your own fitness movements five minutes a day throughout the course of your day and the things that you're already doing. And that's what's more sustainable for most people. And actually doable. Doable and achievable.
And. As a parent whose child has been to speech therapy, that's, it works. It's like a, it's amazing 'cause you actually see it work like Bathtime. You're like, okay, let's work on this sound. And you're not even doing it as homework. You're just doing it in play. And that's kind of what you teach us is just incorporate these sounds and you, it, it's incredible seeing your child learn it because you're like, oh, once you know how to teach, it's just your child is.
Good at learning, right? Mm-hmm. Um, can you tell me about the difference between speech sounds, because you [00:16:00] mentioned it briefly, speech sounds and speech. Like language. Uh,
Rebecca: language. So. I think the best way is to kind of see it as a cake analogy. I I use this cake analogy all the time. Yeah. Um, I might have, oh, you saw Jackie?
Um, I'm pretty sure Jackie uses it as well. Um, but no, then, then Mr came back and saw me. Yes. But by then we knew. Okay. Yeah. I'll, I'll explain the cake analogy. So the cake analogy is when you come to see a speech language pathologist and also I'll, I think this is really important for, um. Parents who have children, let's say between 12 months of age to 30 months of age, who have no words, are not saying anything.
I think parents are really good at seeing whether or not their child is using words. It's visible, you can see it. My child's not using any words. I don't hear anything. And then a lot of parents are like, I don't know why. And so I think it's really important to see this cake analogy to find out why. So if you think about the [00:17:00] cake, we wanna break it up into two parts.
So we have a bottom layer and we have an upper layer because a two layered cake is so much better than a single layer cake. Absolutely. It's like it's the cake from, the cake from Loblaws or Sobes that's double layered is better than like a carrot cake.
Surabhi: It's true. Scientifically proven.
Rebecca: Exactly. So, like a carrot cake is fine, but you know, the two layer is the most delicious.
So the bottom layer of the cake is what do you understand? That is what we, what LPs call, um. Receptive language. It's what does the child know? Because if you don't know the word or you don't know the phrase, guess what, you're never gonna say it. Right. You need to have that knowledge of that word to be able to say it.
It's like learning any other language if, if you're going to learn a different LI think you speak two, do you not?
Surabhi: Um, how many do you speak up to? Four. So English. Oh my goodness. English, French Hindi and, but I'm not fully fluent in Hindi and Tam anymore, but I still, you know. Speak enough of [00:18:00] both. Mm-hmm.
But I bet you you understand more than what you can say. Yes. Oh, a hundred percent. Right. And it's so frustrating 'cause I'm like, I understand everything, but then when you go to speak, you, you fumble your words and then it's embarrassing as an adult. Right. Because you're like, I should know how to say this.
But yeah, I see, I see what you mean with even children and that 8-year-old feeling a bit more like lacking confidence versus a five-year-old is like whatever. Like I'll just say it, right?
Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the bottom layer is understanding it. Okay. Understanding a word that is your knowledge, that is the language piece.
The upper layer is the use of language, the expressive language piece. So that is where we look at sound development. Is the child babbling? Is the child making vocalizations? It also includes non-speaking forms of communication. Is the child using gestures, like hands up, clapping, um, where gesture? Is the child pointing?
Is the child shaking their head yes and no able to use a single word? Able to use a phrase, right. Et cetera. So it's the lay, [00:19:00] it's, what are you saying? Then what we do is we put that we, we put, we put that there, layered cake. It's just two layers with the icing in the middle, and we put it on a, on a plate.
Because you cannot serve the, the cake, the language cake, without anything underneath because it will fall apart,
Surabhi (2): right?
Rebecca: That plate is social interaction. So your child, um, should have that intentional desire to communicate with other people around 'em. So you can have a lot of language and understand, but if you're not engaged with other people, you may see delays other, you know, within that plate.
If the plate has holes in it or it's a little bit flimsy, or not as solid, the cake may fall through even though it's such a beautifully baked cake.
Surabhi: It's a paper plate.
Rebecca: Yeah, it's a paper plate. Or there's, you know, there's a little bit of some holes in it, right? Or it's a little bit, you know, there's a little bit of a chip.
Um, and we've gotta make it a little bit stronger. Um, and so that, I like to call the social, the social interaction piece. And that may be why parents are seeing that their child's not using any [00:20:00] words. It's because they're not engaging with other people around them, even though they understand or have the words.
Um, I also add a little fork. Um, because what we know is children learn through play. Um, the fork is your play skills. So it's really important as, um, a speech therapist when you're doing the assessment, that we're not just looking at language, we're looking at how the child plays because that gives us a lot of information on the child's language development.
So the fork is the different kinds of play that we see. Making sure that they have that great variety of prote, of pretend and construct a play and cause and effect and reciprocal play. And that's a whole other area to make sure that everything, the play skills are there. The last piece which you're asking is the speech piece.
What does that mean? Where do the speech sounds come into play and you can take, especially for a toddler, you can take that plate, that cake. Now it's two layers. It's sitting on a cake and the the fork is right there, ready to eat. It tastes pretty good. But what makes that cake, like the, the [00:21:00] cherry on top is the icing.
Yeah. So if you put some icing on top of the cake, that is what we call speech sounds. So that is when a child says the single word that they have, is it coming out clear?
Surabhi (2): Right.
Rebecca: Okay. So that's how we d differentiate between speech sounds. Language, which is the cake batter and interaction and play, which is the plate and the fork.
Mm-hmm. And it, and that is why assessments are so helpful for parents. I'll give an example of a child that came in to see me for, um, an assessment. He had just turned two years of age, an incredibly intelligent child. It was very clear right off the bat and for the parents that the bottom batter was great.
The child had about. 10 to 20 words, um, which four, 2-year-old is, is, is not enough. We want to see at least 100 single words and starting to combine it. Two. And, um, was using [00:22:00] gestures in an incredible amount of ability to use as body to communicate in a non-speaking way, which is what we love. Social skills and his play skills were beautiful, and parents had such great questions.
The parents said to me, I don't understand why my child is not talking, because he has such a great desire to communicate and understands everything that we're saying. Why is he not talking? And by using this cake analogy and by assessing him as a speech language pathologist that has the skills in communication versus a doctor or someone else out of the scope of speech, language pathology, I was able to assess and share with the parent that the reason why their child is not communicating is because the child delay was actually at the top of the icing.
The child was not able to use single words because. Their motor speech was impacted. Mm-hmm. Um, and so what we see is that icing on the top, which is so visible for parents, it's coming out [00:23:00] unclear. If you ever think about a Loblaw's cupcake, if you try to scrape off the icing, like if the child complains you, there's too much icing on the cake.
If you smearer off that icing, that icing is still a little bit there, it's impossible to get it completely off the batter, right? And so what we know is speech sounds can impact expressive language, the language piece. And so it really takes a speech language pathologist to be able to look at the whole cake and share with the person, the parent, and say, this is why.
Right. And because we're working at, let's say, the upper layer, or because we're working, let's say we're working on the plate, or let's say we're working on the bottom layer, what we do as parents and speech language pathologists is very different. And so that's why, uh, an assessment is so important because it's not a one size fits all outcome.
Surabhi: When a child,
Rebecca: yeah,
Surabhi: I had, it's funny because you don't even realize how much, you [00:24:00] know, as the, the practitioner, like the play skills. I didn't even think about that, that that's part of the assessment or the social interaction. And I do think that during the pandemic, so many children and families lacked social interaction or there were many children who were just at home, parents working on the computer, children were watching TV or screens or.
Playing by themselves. And I feel like that's a big piece that we don't even realize how much that impacts speech until it does. Um, so that's incredible that, and this is why I always advocate for people to like go get the help. Because don't
Rebecca: get it done.
Surabhi: You have no idea how much you don't know as a parent and how much the provider has expertise in this.
And it can ease your worries and your anxieties and, um, after having been through it with my child, like it's night and day. Mm-hmm. Because now you know that that person, your child understands everything and ha always has. But now they can actually express, express it, and you see the confidence building because they're able to express it and be heard and be clear and have the teachers and their friends understand them as well.[00:25:00]
Rebecca: One last thing I'll suggest, I'll, I'll mention about what we've been talking about is like I loathe Facebook mom groups or parent groups and I know they can be helpful. I know parents are, again, information seeking parents. We want, most important is word of mouth. I wanna speak to, you know, a parent wants to speak to another parent that's gone through the same thing as me,
Surabhi (2): right?
Rebecca: But unfortunately it's very hard to parse out, to find those fine nuances between. You know when, when a parent will say, well, I, you know, my child was three. I had the exact same thing we did this. But you may be speaking to another parent who was working on the bottom layer of the cake, whereas you, your child actually needs to be working on the icing.
So what worked for that parent may not necessarily be what your child needs. Right? So that's why I'm, I get really nervous on these, on these Facebook groups because a lot of times I see parents that say, oh no, you're okay. Yeah, you don't need an assessment [00:26:00] or. The, the opposite way. They're like, oh, you need to, you need to, I'm like, in my head, I'm like, your child's fine.
So I think really important to reach out to the professional.
Surabhi: Yeah.
Rebecca: Um, my favorite part is telling parents, my favorite part of my job is telling parents that everything's okay. So you don't need to be worried that. You know, an SLP is going to, is just in it for them. They're gonna take, I mean, at least not me, we're not doing it for the money.
Um, we're not gonna keep your child our wait lists unnecessarily. Yeah. We're not gonna keep your child. We're truly only gonna keep your child if your child would benefit. So go for it.
Surabhi: Yeah. I also hate mom groups because there's some good in it, but there's a lot of dangerous stuff and people telling people medical advice and health advice that I'm like, this is not your place.
Just refer. Please refer. Mm-hmm. Can you, um, tell me what kids, what language or speech kids need when entering school? Jk. So that's about the age of four in Canada? [00:27:00] Mm-hmm. Yep.
Rebecca: JK is a fascinating year. Um, I'll tell you what they don't need, and I think I'll get some parents that are gonna, their mouths are gonna drop, um, from a language perspective and let's, let's look at the everything but the icing.
So if we look at the language piece and the social piece and the play piece, I can tell you that your four year olds going into JK does not need to know their colors. They do not need to know their numbers. I already see your They do not. That, that is a skill that you learn in jk that is part of the curriculum.
They're gonna learn it in jk. They do not need to know their colors. They do not need to know their numbers. They do not need to know, um, shapes. Um, they can know it. And the reason why I say that is because one, your child is gonna learn it in jk. It is a school based. Um, concept. And the reason why it concerns me is because we, the, our current [00:28:00] society has banged it over parents' heads that you must know these skills and if not, your child is not smart and this is what they need to de be successful.
But if you think about colors, it is maybe seven vocabulary words. It's red, blue, green, yellow, orange. Right. Oh yeah. One to 10. Yeah. Shapes. There's maybe like five or six main ones. So your child is maybe gaining 20 vocabulary words. Right? But from a language piece and a social piece, what do JK children need to be successful in school?
They need to have playground skills. They need to know how to turn wait, wait for their turn before it's their turn to go up on the slide. They need to know how to, um, uh. Play interactively with other children. They need to learn how do I transition transitional skills, how do I transition from the carpet?
And then how do I follow that [00:29:00] on, follow that direction to the table and sit down and engage. So I think those kinds of social skills, like I would think, you know, a vocabulary word such as, um, think about vocabulary. So things like help and my turn and stop. I don't like that.
Surabhi: Yeah,
Rebecca: right. Are way more effective for children to be successful in the school versus a child that walks in with colors and numbers and shapes, but they have no, you know, their language skills are not as strong in other ways, and they're gonna struggle.
So I always say, if your child loves color, sure, teach it. But do not forget about those playground skills. Um, even something like, I mean, I'm not an ot, I'm not a pt, you know, like how to open your lunchbox
Surabhi: Yeah. Is
Rebecca: how do I put on my boots? How do I dress myself and line up door, take your pants off
Surabhi: to go to the bathroom and pull it back up yourself.
Rebecca: Yeah. You got it. And or if you're struggling to do [00:30:00] that, to be able to ask your teacher for help.
Surabhi: Right.
Rebecca: Right. To me, those are way more important than, um, the. Later developing skills. I will say I think it's important from, you know, a literacy perspective. Like, you know, parents always ask me like, do they need to know A to z?
I go, Nope. But you know what would be really helpful for them? And jk, it's be able to recognize their name because their name is everywhere. It's by their coat hook, it's by where their boots should go. Um, when they first start letter recognition, they ch, I mean, it depends on the school board, but many JK teachers will start with the child's name.
So I think it is really helpful for Par for children to recognize their own name, but everything else they're going to learn in jk that's what they learn.
Surabhi: Wow, that is totally new to me. And um, that's amazing because you don't really stop to think about what do those children really need? And I think from, depending on where you were raised and what culture and what background, academics is often so much like there's so much [00:31:00] pressure.
Like I remember when I had my first, and I was at a mom group, like those early on centers and there was a mom with a baby that was like. Eight months old and my daughter was like nine, 10 months old and she was very interactive or like could sit up or something. And then this mom knew I was a physiotherapist, so she was like, I'm just really worried because she's not doing this yet.
And you know, I'm, we're worried she's behind. And I'm thinking, wow, that's so much pressure on your like. Fresh baby. And you're now also comparing your baby to another baby. And even though your baby's a baby, they can still understand, like, I feel like babies are smart. They can still, they might not be able to understand all the words, but they can understand a sense of like, Hey, my mom thinks I'm not good enough, or my mom putting this pressure on me.
So I always say like, instead of doing that and chatting with other moms who are also, um, for lack of a better term, the blind leading the blind in many ways, go ask the expert, [00:32:00] right? Rather than. Comparing. Oh, why does your child, they can say the A, you know, ABCs, but mine can't. Well, maybe your child has different skills in different areas of Exactly.
You know, different strengths. Strengths, yeah. Yeah. Um, so I love that. Can you tell me about, um, neurodivergence, because that's been a huge. It's not thing, but it's been more visible and there's more conversation around it. And I know that many parents are worried that their children who have speech needs also have neurodivergence.
Yes. Is that true?
Rebecca: Yes. So a lot of children who are neurodiverse. Are more likely to have a speech and language delay. Um, that's what we know. I will say that I'm not the best ex expert on neurodiversity. Okay. Um, that is the, I'll, I'll, I'll share what I know and I've done and I'll say what's really lovely and what's really amazing is.
Is a lot of, you know, a lot of speech language pathologists, including [00:33:00] myself, have done a lot of unlearning. And I think speech language pathology is in such an incredible place right now because we are finally, and I think it's been so helpful for these kids that it's no longer a fear to get a diagnosis and that it's actually a plus.
Um, and so I find that we're stopping, we're no longer trying to fit a neurodiverse child. Um, into a square box where they don't belong. And I think we are finally being inclusive and recognizing that it is a a difference. Not a delay. And so that's why I went back to that. That's where that plate piece is.
That's where we see a lot of the neurodivergence, is that social interaction piece. And I think it's really, really, I would say in the last three years when I first started my schooling and when I first started my practice, like my first 15 years of practice, we saw it as a social interaction delay.
Right. And now what we're learning is that it's not a [00:34:00] delay. Children who are neurodiverse, let's bring up autism. What the research is finding out is that children who are autistic can interact appropriately with one another. Right. So it is not necessarily, it's not a delay, it's a difference. Right. And so, and it goes to that.
I think it's so lovely. We're going to that double empathy problem that. The Neurodiverse child does not, it's not their job to fit into the neurotypical world. It's up to both neurotypicals and neurodiverse, um, populations to understand that double empathy. Uh, bias, um, and recognize that there's a difference and work through that.
So, um, you know, I think it's important as I, for example, I have two neurotypical children and it's been very eye-opening for me that it's not only important for us as parents to teach our children [00:35:00] that there are differences in the world and that we need to be, um, caring and Inc inclusive. But I also think it's really important to.
Share with your neurotypical children that they have a job to do as well,
Surabhi (2): right? And
Rebecca: it's empower them. And it's to understand this idea of ableism. It's to understand that neurotypical children are not better. They're not the better ones compared to a neurodiverse child, that everyone should be recognized and that it's really important to reflect on that, that that neurodiverse child can teach you.
Yeah, a neuro, you know, a neurodiverse child is going to teach you and be a part of that interaction and you're both gonna learn together versus this dichotomy that it used. Used to be. It used to be, yeah. That it used to be a delay. And so even though I'm not an expert, I've been doing so much un learning and I think we are finally seeing, not that we didn't, we're the success that we're [00:36:00] seeing in social interaction therapy for these children who have diagnoses.
Um. It's amazing how just the, the therapist changing their approaches, how much more kinder, um, the therapy has been the, the progress that these children are making. Um, so yes, we're seeing a lot of neurodiversity and I'm within speech and language delays and I think, I hope. Parents used to come in and when they got that a diagnosis, let's say autism, um, there was a lot of tears and a lot of, um, mourning over the loss of their child's future.
And I'm really hopeful with, um, I think I would always suggest to parents who have neurodiverse children is to listen to neurodiverse voices. I'm not one of them, so I'm not the right person. But listen to Neurodiverse voices and I think there is a lot of hope, and I think there's a lot of potential for Neurodiverse [00:37:00] children to be very successful in the world, but I do think it takes both sides to truly make that happen.
I think we're getting there, but I think we've got a long way to go. Yeah, so I've been doing a lot of, that's amazing listening, a lot of listening to change my ways
Surabhi: because that's, that's the reality is I don't know how many years you've been in practice, but when I went to school 12, 13 years ago, there were so many ways that we learned that were, you know, would not work Now.
No, everything we learned was from a very male Eurocentric lens, what a normal body is, what normal posture is. And when you actually look at like, Hey, women actually don't stand like that. You know, black women don't stand like that brown. Like there's so many layers. And if you're in a wheelchair, you're scoliosis is maybe normal because you're pushing with one side.
Like there's so many other things to consider. And I really think that we're only gonna be learning more. And I like what you said about listening to people's voices, maybe. There, I'm sure there are many other speech language pathologists and practitioners who are [00:38:00] neurodiverse themselves. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So, you know, seeking out that type of support, um, so that you're, you and your family, you also don't feel alone in this process because what we know is. There have always been, there's always been neurodiversity. It's just not, never been recognized or it's been seen as a weakness or as a delay, like you said.
And now we're understanding that there's, it's not a weakness, better or worse, it's just a difference from, you know, different experiences. Mm-hmm. Um, tell me about babbling babies.
Rebecca: Okay, so babbling babies is my, it was like my passion project. Um, it is a baby program. It's interactive. It's eight weeks long.
It's for both parent and baby. Um, it is a 45 minute class. It is part learning strategies. You know, the par, you know what SOPs. Used, what does the [00:39:00] knowledge show us about baby development? Their speech and language development, their play development and babyhood providing some strategies, um, and awareness of how to promote your child's communication.
And we do a, the other half is play, so, um, I don't know if you've seen pictures of our, I don't know if you went into our, to, you've probably seen our toy room. Yeah. So its pretty, which is amazing. Pretty, it's pretty, pretty intense. And, and so, because again, thinking about that analogy, everything is through play.
So not that you need to have every, you know, you can just have one toy and that's enough. But really helping parents to understand. You know, what does play look like in babyhood or toddlerhood, and what are our favorite toys that we like to play with, and what does it mean by favorite toy? It means that we have interacted using this toy with so many babies that age.
We've had all that experience and recognizing what's a better toy. For a baby versus another toy on the market. And that goes back to our discussion on shapes and [00:40:00] colors and numbers, is that so much of the toys that are on the market, um, they're battery operated and they bombarded these babies with.
Again, um, concepts and vocabulary that is not meaningful or useful. Um, we like to use, I think in your profession as well. Functional. Yeah. It's not functional, it's not meaningful for the baby at that moment in time. So we do a lot of our work in this, in this program of sharing with parents. These are the toys that we like.
So you know, for example, no batteries, ones that go across the full spectrum of play. So cause effect, constructive. We do a lot of book reading. How do we like to read the book? What does this research show is about? Reading books to children to promote communication. Um, and then it's really fun. So the babies get a chance to play, the babies get to interact, um, the parents get to interact with each other and have that bond.
It's a small class, less than 10. Um, and [00:41:00] so the reason why I started the program is because when my children were babies, um, at least in Toronto, what was available to us was a lot of music classes. Yeah. And not that there was anything wrong with the music classes. They were love. I mean, some were really lovely.
Some. As a speech language pathologist, I was dying inside because it was either too loud or again, focusing on the wrong concepts. Um, and so from there I thought to myself, I could provide, I could provide something to parents that is going to be useful. So it's not just for the baby to get, get something out of it, but it's also something for the parent to learn about and then take it with them when they're home with their baby.
All those long hours at home. So that's why it was developed. Um, and it's now been trademarked and That's amazing. An e-course that goes with it. So it's my little passion project. Um, and we
Surabhi: Do you run it at your current clinic? We
Rebecca: do, we do. Nice. Yeah, so [00:42:00] right now we only, well, we have a new clinic. Um, right now we only run it at our locations pre pandemic.
We used to run it. Um. In other people's homes. Um, but now with, um, this high need for private speech and language therapy, um, there's only so much that we can do. So we've made the decision to only right now to only have it within our own makes sense space, just because we don't, it's just a time issue.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's a great, I love the program. Um, I think it's really, we hear that it's really been, you know, parents really appreciate it, that it's not just for the baby who loves it, but it's also the parents can get something outta it as well.
Surabhi: Listen, when your kids can communicate more effectively, it makes your life easier, right?
Mm-hmm. Like there's a lot of frustration and tantrums, I feel like, from the lack of understanding each other and just even understanding how babies communicate. Um, one of my friends is an SLP, so I remember like, I will never forget this. Her daughter was like 16 months old. My daughter was probably like eight months [00:43:00] old, and she'd come over and her daughter was like saying words like elephant so clearly.
And I was like, how is this kid speaking so clearly? And she's like, I've just been basically doing speech therapy with her when she, since she was born. 'cause she has those skills and I would look at how she communicates with her child and so clearly and with animation and mm-hmm. I'm like there are actual skills that you have as a speech language pathologist to teach children.
And I feel like there's so much parents can learn from something like babbling babies where then you learn to how to interact. More clearly, more effectively with your child and have more fun with it too. Got, because guess what, I didn't grow up having kids' books read to me. Like there was not, I didn't have that experience.
So I, when I became a parent, it, there was a lot of learning about how to parent, because I grew up in India and there was different, it wasn't bad or it wasn't better or worse. There was just, it was just different. Right. There's different childhood. Um. Even the toys now. Right. Just to see, like when I brought my daughter in, like [00:44:00] what kind of toys she liked to play with.
'cause some of them we'd never even played with before. And she would come home and be like, I love that, that mm-hmm. You know, dinosaur toy or whatever it was. And it is just interesting, like learning about what your child likes. Um,
Rebecca: and that's part of it too because they can test out that, you know, each week we present a, a play development and the babies get to test out.
And so parents can see, oh, they really liked that toy and they really liked that toy. And so then you can, you have a better ability to have like a curated, um, toy library in your own home. Yeah. Toy space so that you're not. You know, bombarded with so many toys that your child is not interested in.
Surabhi: Yes.
And
Rebecca: keep toys outta the landfill and, yes, exactly. So, and I, that's what we try to do.
Surabhi: And you're right, there's so many music programs for babies. It was like everywhere I went there was like baby mom, mommy music. And so for me, I created my postpartum return to exercise program. So there was something for the mother too.
'cause when the mom feels better, the baby's gonna feel better too. When you're. You're feeling better about yourself and your body and everything, so [00:45:00] I love that our own experiences in parenting kind of created something good, you know, something magical that came out of it. I have some questions for you because you're an entrepreneur, you're a mom, you're busy, you're doing so much.
What are three things that you like to do for yourself for self-care? Every day? Mm-hmm. Do you do anything first of all?
Rebecca: Oh, wow. This is a great question.
Surabhi: Self care. And it doesn't have to be big. Like, it doesn't have to be a bath or a mask or you No, no,
Rebecca: no, no. Yes. No, no, no. I do. I, um, my, I don't know if this counts as selfcare, but to me it's very much my self-care and how I, you know, I get asked this question, how, you know.
How do you make it, how do you make this work? And my self-care is asking for help. Mm-hmm. Um, so my self-care is making sure that I have other people in my life who are able to support me. So, for example, I am a type A individual. You [00:46:00] can't figure that.
I, I'm the kind of person that if I don't know, if I don't think I'm good at it, let's say cooking, I'm a terrible cook. Same, um, I cannot do it. And it caused me a lot of anxiety when I got home with my child, with my children at five o'clock and I'm like, oh my goodness, I now I have to get something that.
I have to feed them and I'm like, I can't do this. And that 30 minutes of time that I took where I felt so bad about myself, and then my kids would just be like, Ew, this is disgusting. Yeah.
Surabhi: They're like, I, this is gross mommy. And you're like, great. I spent all that time. Yeah.
Rebecca: So I'm the kind of person that believes, and again, I understand that this comes from a place where you need to have that financial backing, but for me it was really important that what am I gonna do with this finite amount of time? If I only have 45 minutes of spare time, I wanna be doing, you know. Being on a podcast or doing something for my kids that I'm very good at, like, I don't know, gathering boots for them.
I'm really great at picking out boots for them, but the cooking I cannot do. And so I reached out and found support that I pay for. Amazing.
Surabhi: Yeah. So
Rebecca: that I am then available to do other things that I'm very good at. Yeah. So for me, my self care is not feeling bad about asking for help and paying for it.
Um, because I believe if I only have an hour. Of time. It better be doing count something that one I love and two that I'm good at.
Surabhi: Yeah,
Rebecca: because I think that just helps. My family out.
Surabhi: Yeah. And it [00:01:00] also helps you feel better at the end of the day. Yeah. And you're not feeling guilty about not being the mom who does X, Y, Z, because that's what society has told us.
You're like, you know what? I'm honoring what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. You got it. Getting help. That's amazing. And so what are you, someone who's an amazing chef,
Rebecca: right. Who has become part of our family. Right. Amazing. And that is that those are the, those are the things that I spend my. My, uh, my money on is because that's gonna make me, that's my self-care.
Yeah. It is not, it's reaching out for help. It is, honestly. Yeah.
Surabhi: And so what is something that you are really passionate about right now?
Rebecca: Hmm, great question. Um, does it have to be in speech or other things? No,
Surabhi: no. Absolutely not. It doesn't have to be work related, career related.
Rebecca: What am I really passionate about?
Um. You know what? Let me, I can give I, okay. I think from a speech perspective, what I'm really passionate about is post [00:02:00] pandemic. Um, I think whatever your thoughts were during the moment, um, what we are seeing in our assessments, um, the children are definitely coming in differently. Um, not necessarily better or worse, but children are communicating differently versus how they were coming in as a whole, let's say, pre pandemic.
So I've been very, um, it's been a little bit more of a passion for me about this, and we're seeing different anxiety levels in parents. So just going back to. I'm really passionate, even more so now about getting our children in early, um, because there's such a high need for speech therapy because we're seeing differences post pandemic.
Um, so that's one passion of mine. And the other passion of mine, which has also really helped me feel better, is I've been working out more. Yes. Yeah. Amazing. So I've been looking, I've been, I, I used to just, oh, here and there, and what I really learned, what, what someone, you know, what someone in the, in the, uh, [00:03:00] physiotherapy,
Surabhi: fitness space,
Rebecca: fitness space shared with me is just how you would.
Book a client in, I had to book in my gym time. Oh yeah. And that's gotta be in your schedule.
Surabhi: Yeah.
Rebecca: So that has made a big change of mine in terms of my, my energy level, my ability to be, I, I just find I'm more calm and relaxed and I feel, you know, I feel stronger. Yes. But it's really helped me everywhere.
So yeah, picking up, picking up exercise has been a big change, I would say within the last year.
Surabhi: That's awesome.
Rebecca: Yeah. That's one of my passions.
Surabhi: Mm-hmm. And it's interesting that you said the other part about the pandemic because I notice it's not just the, like the plate analogy, it's not just the children's plate, it's probably the parents' plate too.
Like I even talking to adults, I'm like, you haven't been around talking to people as much the recently. 'cause some people are more socially awkward or they feel like they, um, there's more anxiety. There's [00:04:00] just. Less of that village of community. And so it's probably not necessarily affecting adult speech, but just their general levels of calm in their day, which then rubs off on the rest of your family too.
Mm-hmm. Um, as a parent. Mm-hmm. Okay. If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?
Rebecca: Oh my goodness. I could change one thing about the world.
Right now, I think one thing I would change about the world, this is such a great question. I think a lot of the times what comes out to, I work with children. I love working with children, and I think I just want nice kits. Um, I don't care how smart, I mean, we all want our children to succeed. Yeah. Again, it goes back to entry into jk and I think everything that I've been sharing, I think [00:05:00] number one is to have children that are nice and kind and respectful, aware of, of, you know, other people in their lives.
And, um, what would I want in the world is just a general, I, I think it's, I, I don't think it's an easy answer. I don't think there's an easy fix, but I, I think it would be being nice. Um, for more people to be nice and understanding, and I think we have to really consider anxiety levels. Yes. Uh, parents. Um, I, I think that would be a big thing for me that what I would love, um, I, you know, and I think it's important that we each try, um, like for example, one, when we opened up our space, um.
I was able to build it from, you know, how I wanted it to look. And I, again, what you said, it's not just the child's plate, but it's every, it's the parent's plate. I wanted, I, I designed the waiting room [00:06:00] actually more for the parent than the child. I mean, it's fun for the child. There's lots of little springy toys and boy, boy toys and, and waiting books and stuff.
But I wanted parents to walk in and I wanted it to feel like their own home. Yeah, I wanna feel very comfy because I wanted parents' anxiety levels to go down. So I think your question of, I would love for everyone to be a little bit, I would love to look at that anxiety piece. I think there's a lot of pressure in the world and yes, that whole nice piece, I think is what I would love for the world.
Yeah,
Surabhi: more kindness, but not easy for consideration for each other. I know it's not easy, but it's, I think you are doing it like if we're all addressing, not addressing, but. Um, creating space like that, environment like that in our own homes, there has to be a ripple effect. You know what I mean? Like there has to be, each of us impacts so many people around us.
And the more we can do the things that help us feel calm and kind and nice to the people around us instead of, uh, and the things that bring our own anxieties down, the better [00:07:00] our whole family and communities are. And for me, exercise is a big part of. It for me too. Yeah. Anxiety, calm, like everything. I feel better.
I'm a ne better human. I think we're all better humans when we're able to exercise regularly. And it doesn't have to be at the gym, it can be at home, it can be going for a walk. It can look so many different ways. Mm-hmm. And I think you answered this piece already, but what do you think is your biggest mom strength?
Rebecca: Oh, my biggest mom strength.
Uh, I don't necessarily know if it's a strength or something. I've been, uh, really cognizant of, and one of my goals, and I'm still working on it, but I'm gonna say it's a strength because I, I've been really trying, um, is, is to listen. Um, I is, and I think it's the hardest thing I've worked on is, is to take some time to.
I think it's so easy for us to, [00:08:00] you know, to react. Yeah. React and share all our knowledge and help our children to learn. And trust me, I struggle with it, but I think is to again, that calmness and try to reduce anxiety levels and really to listen to my children. Mm-hmm. It's so hard. Um, but not to be as reactive and I've been trying to listen more and say less, and that's hard for a speech language pathologist.
It. I really tried. I'm really trying to listen. How old are your kids? Uh, they're old now. Um, they're seven and a half and nine. Yeah, they're pretty old.
Surabhi: There's a lot going
Rebecca: on. Yeah.
Surabhi: And it's, it's funny 'cause you always think it's gonna be really busy when you have a young baby and toddler and you're like, it is, but it only gets.
Busier in many ways 'cause kids have their own needs, interests, activities, and um, it's really interesting. Um, I love that. That's a huge skill and something I'm working on as well. 'cause [00:09:00] so often as parents we wanna just offer solutions right away and fix all their problems and tell them what we would do.
And sometimes that's like, oh, well that then they don't actually develop the skill of problem solving. They don't actually develop the skill of. You know, working through this. And so that listening piece is so huge. Um, thank you Rebecca, for sharing all of your knowledge. You welcome and expertise. You're welcome.
I think this is such a thanks for having me. Helpful episode for people who I, for every single person who has had a child. I think this is really helpful. Um, I didn't know anything about speech language pathology, even though we went, like, I went to UUU of T for physiotherapy and we shared a building.
Yeah, we did. Despite that. I wish there was more interaction. Um, 2011,
Rebecca: uh, so I was 2007. So I was, so that's why we didn't cross paths, but we never really did with the PTs or the OTs.
Surabhi: I know. Yeah. Like my, so my friend from high school, Helen Litz, who's the one who referred me to you, went to speech therapy [00:10:00] school.
Speech, uh, SLP. Program the same time I was in pt. And I'm like, I saw her maybe once or twice. Like there's just so little interaction. And I think what you said about um, or, or the importance of like interdisciplinary care is also key is sometimes as a PT I might recognize that anxiety that. That mom has about breastfeeding and refer them to a lactation consultant or mental health, or even their kid's speech.
And so understanding each other's roles to me is really important so that we can make those referrals and ease people's anxieties and worries and just help people live a better quality of life. Um, this episode will probably come out either end of December or early January. Um, where can people find you?
What's your website? Social media. How can people connect with you.
Rebecca: So on social media we are bespoke.speech and then its the same website, similar website. Its bespokespeech.ca CA not COM,
Surabhi: Mines CA too.
Rebecca: While we’re Canadian, lets be proud Canadians. I can’t afford the Dot COM. And if you live in Midtown Toronto, we just opened our new clinic space that is in the Cedarville Witchwood area, 845 St. Clair Avenue West, so if you ever want to pop in and say hi, just email me and i’m happy to show you around as long as you are not an axe murderer.
Surabhi: Yes we need to qualify that.
Rebecca: Yeah so call me first and so those i would say. Instagram, website and our physical location.
Surabhi: And now you’ve expanded, am I right? To that like bigger location. What’s your waitlist like, do you have a waitlist for people trying to get in?
Rebecca: Great question, so there are three main therapists, you know all of them. We have three main ones, Two of my colleagues just came on because we just opened in September. Two of my colleagues came on fulltime. So from September to December is the worst time to be looking for services. Because its end of the year. I will say at this point of time. We did not have a waitlist it was the most glorious time. Right now we just became full, like all three of us. We have a couple of colleagues who work here and there, like half day. Right now we’re all full, but the glory of working with preschoolers and school-aged working on speech sounds is that children make really good change. So I always say working with us, we’re a revolving door so even though right now we have a small waitlist which i think is pretty good for an in-person practice in Midtown Toronto. Its a small waitlist but its not a long waitlist. So depending on you know, if you want like an after school slot or an early morning slot, those are the ones that fly out the window. But if you want to come in during the day, you know you’ll be getting in pretty quickly. Aferschool, It depends on your schedule. It’s a pretty small waitlist, at least for us.
Surabhi: And I will say that sometimes its worth it to come, cause i think we always came morning, like midmorning. It was not like 8 a.m. And sometimes its just worth it, to take the time out of your day. Like you said It’s not like your going to be there for months and months. Like kids make progress really quickly and I’m so glad we did that because then your child makes the progress and then you’re good or you’re good for a while. Same with physiotherapy, people are like oh i can only do it this time and im like honestly you’re not gonna need that much. You just need a few visits And its inconvenient for a month or two and then you’re good. So I love that.
I will share all your details, your social media and website when this episode comes out.
Thank you all for listening. If this episode was helpful, share this with your friends, when you see people ask questions about SLP in mom groups, share this episode with them. Instead of trying to offer advice form non-expert perspectives. Thank you so much Rebecca.
Rebecca: You’re welcome.
Surabhi: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Mom Strength and being part of this important conversation. Check out the show notes for more info and links and we'll chat again real soon.
