56. Pelvic Pain, Dyspareunia and UTIs with Jane Bai
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Surabhi Veitch interviews fellow pelvic/ortho physiotherapist, Jane Bai, who knows all too well that asking for help isn’t easy. During her 20s, Jane had pelvic floor health issues, including dyspareunia, UTIs, and bladder pain symptoms. Despite being in school to become a physiotherapist, she didn't get help right away. Find out in this episode how Jane got the help she needed and is using her experience to advocate for others.
We discuss:
Jane’s pelvic health issues during physiotherapy school
Dyspareunia and relationship challenges
Shame around sexual dysfunction
Barriers to seeking help
Patience and motherhood
Prioritizing self-care
Connect with Jane & Important Links:
Follow Jane on Instagram @pelvicpro
Find Jane at: https://www.pelvicpro.ca/ or at Step Up Massage and Rehab in downtown Toronto
Connect with Surabhi:
Website: https://www.thepassionatephysio.ca
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Please note the teaser and musical intro take up the first minute and 6 seconds. The transcript below should start at 00:01:06.
Surabhi: [00:00:00] hello everyone, this is Surabhi Veitch and I am happy to bring you back another episode of Mom's Strength with a very cool person that I've met through social media., Jane Bai so Jane and I connected because we both were having our sec, my second in her first, literally like the same week. And so we were going through it the same time and it's so wild how social media like. Connects people who are in the same phase of life. And we were both talking about pelvic health and just like in the thick of pandemic parenting, Jane for the first time.
And I love the things that she shares online as a pelvic physiotherapist and just even her whole personal experience. So really wanted to have you on today. Welcome Jane.
Jane: Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here and honored to be invited.
Surabhi: I'm honored that you're here. And so, Jane, as she works in downtown Toronto as a pelvic physio at Step Up Massage and Rehab, and she also offers virtual physio, yay.
Virtual, at pelvic pro.ca. [00:01:00] So I wanted to say that right off the bat in case you're figuring out like a, where do I find her? She's an ortho and pelvic health physiotherapist, in Toronto. Are you from Toronto originally, then you were born? No. Okay.
Jane: No, it's a long story. Okay. It's a long story. we can get into it later, but
Surabhi: Yeah, sounds good.
Because I, I mean, I wasn't born here, but I've lived here as soon as we moved to Canada and Oh, it's just wild to me how you meet so many people from like all over the world and like Toronto really like is so amazing for that. Cuz you people have such diverse backgrounds and stories. Yeah. And yet like we kind of all meld and like come.
Come here. So can you tell me about yourself and what got you interested in pelvic health? Uh, wanting to be a pelvic pt? , I wanna know everything. Tell me about You are. Okay. Oh my
Jane: goodness. Where do I begin?
Surabhi: You can start when you were born, if you'd like, or when you went to university. Whatever, whatever.
Tell me every, tell me anything. We wanna get to know who you're okay.
Guest Introduction
Jane: Okay. I can get [00:02:00] started with, , I was born in, in China. My parents are from Beijing. I'm from Beijing. Nice. So a lot of cultural influence, like we still speak Mandarin at home. And so we, because of my dad's education, we moved quite a bit when I was a kid.
So born in Beijing, moved to the uk, at the age of two. Stayed there for a little while, while my dad was doing his, um, PhD and then we moved to Ottawa, stayed there for his post, moved Toronto, stayed there for a little bit, moved to London. So we moved all over Ontario. Wow. But the actual schooling that I took and, and my physio education, was through McGill and I'm, I'm really thankful for that because that's where I met Claudia Brown. And if you guys are pelvic floor physios, you would know she's like a massive icon or a big name in our field. So, I'm so thankful I got into McGill. It was the only school I got into, but I was, I was thankful I got,
Surabhi: it's [00:03:00] hard to get into, so you must be really smart because like that's a, it's known is a really good school for, for physio and everything else.
And how cool is it that, like I went to U of T and I really do feel like the, you go into school and you're like, I want, I want it to be a neurophysio. And work in spinal cord rehab. And that's was, that's why I went to physio school. And then when I was actually in physio school, it was like the instructors that I met that like drew me to orthopedics or drew me to this.
And it's cool how like that's the power of connection, right? Yes. It's like you connect with someone and then you're like, I want, I'm more interested in that because this person is,
Jane: that's fascinating you say that because I, I wanted to go into maybe neurophysio or geriatric, like in the geriatric field originally because Yeah.
Um, a couple reasons. I, before becoming a physio, I was actually in research. I. So I had a couple years of wet lab research doing Parkinson's disease research at like the cellular, [00:04:00] molecular level, like the protein level actually. And so I was thinking like, oh, this would be cool to do more global, like see the actual person and do neurorehab or,
something in, in the geriatric realm. But because of teachers and because of the influence of what I had learned at McGill, my ortho interest and pelvic health interests were Yeah, way more for the focus.
Surabhi: Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of similar to me. It's like I, we did research in acquired brain injury in children and I, that's when I was like, I don't think I can work with children.
Not because I don't like, I, I just find it really hard. To see children suffering. I think that's what it came down to. Hmm. It was like, I didn't, I don't think I could handle. Doing that every single day. Um, but I applaud and I'm grateful for the people who do, because people need that. Like those services are needed.
Same with geriatrics, right? Absolut can be really hard. Parkinson's, it can be really hard. Um, [00:05:00] and even what we do, right, pelvic health, there's a lot of pain, trauma sensitive topics there and stigmatize topics that nobody wants to discuss. Um, and you discuss, and I love that you talk about things openly on your page, which is what really attracts me to you and your content.
So tell me about your own history. Do you have any history of any pelvic health issues or.
Jane's pelvic health issues
Jane: Yes, I do. I have a, a little bit of a laundry list and all of these sort of surfaced at around the time I was in university. So, yeah. Um, I really wanted to bring this up because I really wanted to advocate for a profession and let you guys know that yeah, you may be, you may be living with these concerns and conditions and not know who to see or, how to seek help.
Dyspareunia
Jane: So for me the main things were dyspareunia. . So that's just a fancy way to say pain with sex. Doesn't matter. Like deep, superficial, all of it was painful for me. And then, Over time, what I [00:06:00] noticed was I was getting bladder symptoms, a lot of U T I symptoms, urgency, frequency, specifically post sex.
And I was like, what the heck is going on? Is my sex life ruining my bladder health? Or like, am I just not cleaning myself properly? So I kind of just felt like I had to have this conversation with myself. Like, am I, am I just gonna have to live like this and have right these discussions with new partners or with my current partner?
How's this gonna work long term? Um, so yeah. Yeah.
Shame
Surabhi: And like you're young, you're like, and we, we always think about pelvic floor issues. Maybe we're, you know, pregnancy, postpartum, like menopause, but like this pelvic, everybody has a pelvic floor. Right. Regardless of mm-hmm. Who you are, you have a pelvic floor so you can have discomfort, pain, leakage, urgency, even if you never have children or even if you, you know.
Exactly. And I think that's, A crucial part of the story is like I leaked when I was in my twenties, early twenties,[00:07:00] with running, I had urgency. Mm. And I was ashamed to talk about it because like, what are you gonna tell your friends? Hey, I kind of peed myself. Right? We don't have those conversations because, It's, it's a sense of shame.
Like I, um, something's wrong with my body, my pelvic floor, and like, I'm ashamed of, because you think, oh, kids can control themselves. Like why can't I? Right. So there's a big Right. Um, shame. Shame with it. Yeah. And I, I shared openly now because I'm like, listen, I know I'm not alone if this happens to me. I know this happens to a lot of people and, we need to talk about it.
And so pain with sex is even more stigmatized because we don't, as women, like we don't really talk about our sex lives with our friends. Like we talk about everything else. But sometime for some reason that is like a topic that's just not discussed from depending on the friendships. Of course. Yeah., so what, what kind of helped you.
Find help or did you seek pelvic health physiotherapy right away? Or did you, what, what was [00:08:00] your journey into finding support?
Jane: Yeah, so my first sort of time where I realized, okay, maybe this could even be my pelvic floor, cuz I, I did not know this was my pelvic floor giving me these symptoms, was through that initial class at McGill.
And it was literally labeled as a female incontinence class, but we learned so much more. We learned that this was really just, um, Like the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more to learn beyond this. Yeah. But during that class was when the teacher in the labs where I realized like, oh my gosh, I'm like kind of the outlier compared to everyone.
Like, I'm going way more frequently in between classes. I'm going just in case. I'm waking up in the middle of the night, I'm having all these other symptoms and no one else in the, in the class were having these symptoms. And that was my first sort of wake up call like, Wait a second, can I manage these symptoms and is there a root cause to all of this?
Um, so that was my first wake up call. I did not seek, a pelvic health [00:09:00] physio until I had benefits. So that was a big barrier for me is, yeah, uh, not only the shame, but also the finances.
Surabhi: Finances, yeah. As a student. Yeah. Like you're already in debt. You know, from schooling and whatnot. And like, I do feel that being on social media and sharing what we do is, for me, it's a small way to give back because there are people who are getting free good advice and education if maybe they're not financially or mentally, you know, we're ready to get support and I'm like, something's better than nothing.
So even, yeah, having a tip about constipation, having this free content is so, so beneficial. Um, and the other thing that you mentioned was like, You know, when we talk about symptoms like this, sometimes we don't get help because we think that that's just how it is. Mm-hmm. We just think that we are destined to have pain with sex or have bad sex, or have UTIs.
We, we think we just, that's like, that's it. Yeah. And it's not right. Like there, you know, you can totally change that. With just a little bit of [00:10:00] support. Um, absolutely. And so tell me about how many, so how many years did you have symptoms and when did it actually start for you? Did it start with, you know, sexual intercourse or did it start with when you were in a teen, like how old?
When did you start noticing that you had pelvic health? Health? Um, Symptoms.
Jane: Yeah. Uh, this was actually interesting you asked. It's kind of the transition period between when I was doing research, um, defending my thesis and then applying for physio school. So I didn't get in my first year, tons of stress, tons of like feelings of failure, feeling like am I really cut out to be a physio?
And then, during that period, um, I had been with someone long term and started noticing these symptoms creep up. But at that time I was taking part-time schools to bump up my grades. So a lot of those bladder symptoms, I feel like you don't notice them unless you're in a situation where you're occupied for the day.
So, for example, I [00:11:00] could give you the example of when I first started out as a physio. I remember during my hour long appointments potentially needing to ask, uh, the client to be. In the room on their own so I could go to the bathroom, um, or go just in case, like making sure I go just in case in between.
Hmm. So, yeah, I, I had already been a physio for a little while before I mustered up the courage to be like, maybe I should just go check this out myself. Um, obviously I'm not doing a great, great job managing this on my own. If there's something else I could do, I'm gonna try it. Yeah.
Surabhi: Yeah. And, and I was a physio myself too, while I was experiencing leaks.
Right. So, but when you're on orthopedics, it's a little different too. Is, um, first of all, I wanna say that most folks, I don't know what year you graduated, but I graduated in 2011. We didn't have any pelvic health education in school. We had one lecture on pregnancy where we watched a video that basically said how traumatizing pregnancy and childbirth is on for Oh geez.
For somebody. And so, mm-hmm. [00:12:00] You know, everyone was kind of like, Oh, like that's pregnancy and like, that's it. Right? And so in orthopedics you don't learn anything about incontinence. You don't learn anything about urgency. And I think that's changing now. I think the students now are getting pelvic health, um, education, just at least the bare minimum.
But back then we didn't. So even though I was a physio and I knew better, quote unquote, and I had benefits through my spouse, I didn't know that this was something that was. A, a big enough issue to address, and b, that it was the tip of the iceberg to other things that were going on down there.
Jane: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,
Surabhi: yeah. So, uh, thank you for sharing that. I think that that's something a lot of young, healthy, you know, professionals in high stress schooling and, um, competitive education. You know, we have to get top grades to get into these schools. Yeah. I think we can resonate like that high stress lifestyle.
Your [00:13:00] pelvic floor is not gonna be relaxed, you know, it's just mm-hmm. You know, it's just doing this. Yeah. Um, and so tell me about now when you did seek help, were you still living in Montreal?
Jane: No. So I had moved back to Toronto. Oh, okay. Um, at that time with my long-term partner and then, had started working.
So that was a whole new, different whirlwind of stressors and, um, yeah, when, whenever you're new to a profession, I think it's, it definitely takes some time to get your bearings. Into it.
Surabhi: But yeah, people think it's like a couple weeks or months. I'm like, it's like the first year at least, you know, it's like you're just entry to practice.
It's tough. You wanna do your best, like we are here to serve our clients and we don't wanna screw up or like Yeah. You know, miss something that was important. So we put a lot of pressure on your ourselves. Um, and then tell me about when you finally did get support. How did that transition into your experience with pregnancy and you know, [00:14:00] that whole transition?
Jane: Yeah, so I originally got support sort of as like, Kind of like a final thread of like trying to save the relationship at that point., and so that's what got me into my first appointment and, found out a lot of things about even externally, like things that were tense and tight that I wasn't paying attention to, like my hip flexors, which can contribute to pelvic floor tension like glutes. And then finally getting a proper like internal assessment done, which, you know, we do every so often in pelvic floor, uh, courses. We have a lab component and so that's, it basically looks like a big. Room full of people doing internal exams on each other. Um, so I knew there was something going on, but to have a full complete assessment done and have a plan in place, really motivated me to get going, get going on this.
And I had, um, My public health physio was one of [00:15:00] the teaching assistants, at Pelvic Health Solutions, which is basically a big teaching
The like company?
Surabhi: Yeah, I would say like teaching company. The teaching company in Canada. Right? In Canada,
Jane: correct, yeah. Um, that offers internal pelvic health courses and yeah.
Surabhi: That's awesome. So you, did you get to work with her?
Jane: Yeah, I got to work with her. Her name's Lauren Campbell. And so she works downtown. Yeah. As well. She, she's really great. Um, very patient cuz at that time, I had already mentioned this to a family doctor, a naturopath, so I was working with a small team.
Nice. And I was getting like, quite a bit of anaphylactic, like antibiotic use. Um, before sex and that wasn't really working for me. I mean
Surabhi: it And was that for the UTIs or specifically?
Jane: Yeah, for the UTIs and more so for my fear of getting another uti. I Cuz it, it really would be like awful.
Surabhi: Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna hear about what happens from the medical side.
So was your [00:16:00] doctor understanding, did they refer you to physio? Did they, you know, Yeah,
Jane: good question. Um, yeah, so when I brought it up to my doctor, I think it came up, um, when we were talking about pap smears and I had mentioned, yeah, it's painful for me to have sex and keep in mind this wasn't painful all my life.
So there were a few good years that's right in there. So, um, that can be different from other, other people's history, that the first time might be painful or it may have developed over time. So, um, yeah, pap smears for a while weren't. That bad and, but. Mentioning that, uh, for the first physical that I had started that conversation and I brought up the UTIs as well, and the initial conversation was, well, let's see how this goes.
Like, see if you consistently still get these chronic UTIs after sex, and maybe I'll write you a prescription on the second or third visit. Um, we did a few urine, uh, [00:17:00] examination urine cultures. Um, But yeah, it was just when I was actively having sex, and I think the first few, I will say the first few, um, Times that I had UTIs, they were quote unquote like true, like positive urine culture tests.
But then later on I was getting these symptoms with or without the culture test being negative or positive. So it was kind of up in the air and I'm like, well, what's going on? If they're negative, then why the heck am I getting these symptoms still? Um, why are you.
Surabhi: You know, hopefully you weren't getting prescribed antibiotics for, you know, no, no actual infection.
Jane: Honestly, I think I was for, for a period. Um, but a part of me is like, I almost wanted to have them as well as kind of like a safety net of, oh, at least I'm not going to have cloudy pee or like painful pain. The burning, yeah, the burning the blood sometimes. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, [00:18:00] yeah. Um, part of me was like, at least I'm on antibiotics, but I wasn't.
You know, I didn't have the education back then to know like, oh, this is impacting my gut health and my, I know my immunity and my, all the other things with the microbiome, so. Exactly. Yeah. I did not, I had,
Surabhi: um, same, I've, I've been on many doses for acne. Right. As, uh, my, my dermatologist would be like, oh, here's another dose, and my acne would cyclically come with stress.
So physio, school, obviously puberty, but like, you know, huge stressors. And the solution would be here's some hydrocortisone cream, um, injections and antibiotics, which is not dealing with the actual issue, right? Mm-hmm. And it's, it's like the same in pelvic health is we. Pump prescriptions, but we're not asking why is this happening in the first place?
Because if you were clean, bathing, you know, all the other things are happening. Yeah. This shouldn't happen. And um, that's, so it's, it's also goes to show how [00:19:00] we need to also educate the medical system that they don't have to, just as someone with repeat UTIs, we need to look at their pelvic floor and see what's happening.
You know, it's, it's not just a prescription and. You know, come every few weeks for another prescription.
Yeah. Or pee after sex or wipe front
to back, like, yeah. Yeah. That's like the basic stuff. We know that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And how was it with your partner at, you know, because as a partner, you know, I'm just, how was that, how were, were they supportive and how, like how was it?
Jane: Yeah, so my partner was extremely supportive. Um, this is not my partner that I have now. So, um, yeah, at that time, very understanding. And for a long period, keep in mind I was, um, long distance with my partner. Either he had a job in Toronto, I was still in London finishing up my masters, or it was Montreal, Toronto.
So it was a lot of long distance. Mm-hmm. And so part of that is like, [00:20:00] Okay. That might be even for the better cuz I don't have to encounter that like anxiety or worry and fear regularly. Yeah. Yeah. Of having sex and pain and then UTIs all over again. Um, so. Yeah, it almost like worked out in a way, but not, not really great for the relationship.
Like eventually it almost became almost like platonic. Yes. Kinda a love, like a brotherly, sisterly kind of relationship. So yeah, it was tough. It was tough and it was hard to bring up the conversation over and over again. And yeah, I, I don't know. I actually. I don't know why I was so resistant on finding help.
Like was it shame? Was it just me accepting that this might be the way. Things are, I, I'm not too sure or that I was working on it, but my career took a higher focus at that time. I'd
Surabhi: That's say too, right? Like we can't prioritize everything. I, I often think like you can't go all in on your health and go all in on your school and all in on your relationship.
[00:21:00] Like it's, you know, everything's got give and take and sometimes when, yeah. Same with me. Like when I was in school, my gut health was a mess. I was eating like Tim Horton's breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I wasn't eating vegetables enough. Like it's all the basic stuff that we know is important for our health and wellbeing, but that wasn't a priority because I was trying to survive in school and absolutely, you know, that impacts so much more outside of what we see, you know, can impact your sexual health, your pelvic health, your, your, for me, my skin, and so many different things.
And. Um, you know, as a partner, I feel like that's another thing is I was thinking about this, like, in partnerships, we are, so we struggle to communicate about these things sometimes too. Maybe because they're not modeled to us, maybe because we don't talk to our friends about it. Then we enter romantic partnership and we're like, I wanna talk about this, but this is kind of awkward and you don't wanna offend somebody or, you know, or say the, or say the wrong thing.
And, [00:22:00] um, I know with. My work with, you know, clients as well is sometimes people feel like then suddenly they're the, like, sick one, or like they, they're the injured, like, you know, they're the problem. Mm-hmm. And nobody wants to enter a sexual encounter feeling like, oh, I'm the problem. Right, right. Um, there's a lot, there's a lot there.
And it's, it's just hard. It's just hard. Even if you have an understanding partner.
Jane: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I, it was definitely a big, big strain. Big strain, and it's kind of like a topic we dodge every so often. Yeah. Yeah. That was really tough.
Surabhi: How long did it take with pelvic health support for you to start experiencing relief?
Jane: That's a great question. I'm, I'm gonna have to think about this for a second. So I think. It did not take super long for me. I definitely originally came in and a lot of the support was internal release [00:23:00] originally. And yeah, that, that was actually quite helpful. But as like, if you guys follow, follow me on at Pelvic Pro or if, um, you follow Surabhi, it's. It's kind of like you still need to find the root causes you still need to find. Yeah. Yeah. Like,
Surabhi: like the massage is one thing, but why is it tight in the first place, or like, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Jane: Yeah. Yeah. So it took a lot to realize like, okay, this is gonna have to come through lifestyle changes. Like, how am I gonna manage stress from work?
How do I shut off my brain at the end of the day? Cause as a early, like, um, early practicing in my p. PT practice? Yes. Constantly ruminating about like, are my clients okay? How are they doing? Should I email them again? Um, yeah, I'm kind of that highly wound, like type a type of person. So, um, it was tough to shut off and finding things that yeah, fostered relaxation and health in my pelvic floor [00:24:00] were, yeah.
Like, kind of like a small, it's more than a build.
Surabhi: And I think that's the key with physio is like we, I always tell people it's not just about kegels or massage or like physically. Mm-hmm. You know, the pelvic floor, it's about your whole health. Mm-hmm. And it's presenting as a pelvic floor, you know, issue.
And yeah, we do help with lifestyle changes or referring to the appropriate practitioners who can help you with those types of big picture, whether it's a therapist or a, you know, so many different realms. Dietician. Um, and I like that you brought that up cuz some people would be like, oh, I just did some massage and everything was fine.
Or that's what they're, they assume and I'm like, it's not so simple. Right? Um, no, it's so funny. Yeah, I was just thinking about you and your pelvic, uh, your physio school. I always joked physio school was one of the unhealthiest things for my body. We were sitting all the time. My posture's awful. I started getting nerve pain in my neck.
Yeah, my acne was horrible. My diet, everything was just like [00:25:00] the unhealthiest time. And here we are in school supposedly learning how to help people have a healthier quality of life, right?
Jane: Yeah, it's, it's really tough. And it's, it's demanding. It's like two years of complete, like demanding studying and then like a nine to five job and then they expect you to study after.
Surabhi: So yeah, weekend courses, ironic evenings and
yeah, it's very ironic. And um, when I do mentoring with younger, Physios and like, there's no rush, there's no race to figure everything else out. You have like mm-hmm. 30 or 40 year career. It's okay. Mm-hmm. Um, you do, yeah.
Jane: I don't know if your viewers would find this interesting, but, um, in physio school, so the way it works at McGill is your, the pelvic health course is a, is a adjunct, like, it's like a.
What's, what's extra, what's the word I'm trying to,
like elective? Elective, elective.
Yes, yes, yes. And so I could have chosen advanced sports [00:26:00] physio. I could have chosen something different. So, um, yeah, it was just, honestly, that class was six of us, six of us girls, and we had quite a bit of attention from, yeah, Claudia, it was, it was so much fun.
Um, but yeah, it's not, The entire rest of the class, the other 55 of us, they weren't there for, uh, that education. So, yeah, I, I don't know if things are changing now, but I hope they are.
I
Surabhi: think you're right at U of T I'm pretty sure it is an elective or like they have a specialized week where you can, or like.
Whatever the amount of time is where you can choose sports or pelvic, and then the unfortunate part is even with an athlete, they have a pelvis, so you know Yeah. We are separating and it's just we try to segregate and separate body parts. Yeah. And it all meshes and works together and so.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, that's really important. And I also think as a physio, you need to be able to understand the orthopedics and the full body as well as the pelvic floor. And I love that you [00:27:00] do that as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How was it during pregnancy and postpartum? How was your journey with health and your pelvic floor?
Jane: Um, it was kind of an up and down journey and, um, I, I realized I didn't answer your other question about how long did it take to, yeah. How long did it take, realize symptoms? Um, it took about, I wanna give it a month before I realized like things were quite a bit better. Like it was not just my sexual And it's not a long time.
No. And I was already off of the antibiotics after finding out. From Lauren Campbell, she had mentioned like the mic microbiome and I was like, oh man, I'm just doing more damage. My nd had mentioned this as well, she was like, really don't wanna be on antibiotics for too long. Um, so I had already, um, felt confident with those, come off those for a bit and then, um, realized later realized I didn't need them.
They just, yeah, stayed in my cabinet. So, took about a month of, let's say weekly appointments. I think that's what it was [00:28:00] initially, and then farther apart. Like once in one month I would maybe do a checkup, and now I probably do a checkup once in a year. Um, but you're right, like during pregnancy and postpartum, my pelvic health symptoms fluctuated again.
And they honestly, they fluctuate throughout like my stressors. Um, how much, how conscious I am about drinking water. So they have been fluctuating, but pregnancy and postpartum definitely, started noticing these symptoms come back. With a bit of urgency, frequency, I'm talking more postpartum than I am pregnancy, cuz to a certain extent, yes, you're going, you're gonna go more frequent, during pregnancy.
It, it felt like I was way more, way more equipped to, um, work on my concerns. Postpartum, even though I was juggling baby and work and partner. I would always find like those little nuggets of time to do something like yoga or do a meditation here and there, drink my water. Um,
Surabhi: Yeah. And [00:29:00] the, and the interesting part is like some people are not exposed to anything about their pelvic health.
They'll postpartum, that's their first, oh, something's wrong. That's, that's the first time, at least for you in some ways, you're like, I already knew that this could happen or that there, these changes were gonna happen. Yeah. So it's like you're almost better equipped to like not be surprised or shocked.
Right. If, if you are leaking or if you are experiencing pain or symptoms. Um, whereas yeah, like some, you know, for me, my first pelvic health. Physio appointment was postpartum. Right. So it's like, mm-hmm. You don't even know your baseline. You don't even know what you were like, actually, that's not true. It was during my pregnancy.
But even still, you don't know your base. That's
Jane: not even, is it your baseline? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I had still been seeing my pelvic floor physio throughout pregnancy and. Already started experiencing some of those symptoms. Um, well, more like, uh, the fecal urgency type symptoms. That's something I also had before, and I just thought, uh, that's typical.
Like you're supposed to have these like [00:30:00] intense urges to have poops. Um, but yeah, no, not necessarily. So yeah, started working with Lauren all throughout pregnancy and felt, honestly really heard, like all those concerns felt really heard from. Having the time in pelvic health physio versus my two minute appointments, um, at an
Surabhi: OB or a OB chem or with a doctor.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of relief in just having your, uh, needs hurt, right? Yes. Because you, and like, you know, I always say people know what they need if you just let them like talk about it. Right. It's like you ask them questions about their life, they will tell you themselves, you know, I have been really stressed and you know, I haven't been.
Making time to eat breakfast or like, you know, these things come out. Mm-hmm. When you just like listen to the person and ask what's going on, instead of like, mm-hmm we have three minutes to finish this entire appointment. Um, do you have any questions? Okay. Bye. Right. And you're like, but I did, but I can't, I don't feel like I can ask them [00:31:00] a hundred percent.
And so how have you been feeling with how's the stress and the balance? I hate saying balance cuz we know that. It's not like a balanced thing. Mm-hmm. It's always balancing, right? We're always trying to juggle different things. Um, and how do you find it as a mom and business owner and, you know, partner and someone trying to manage your own health obviously too.
Absolutely.
Jane: I, I find again, the answers kind of like it ebbs and flows. Like when I do have the capacity to do a bit more for my health, I will make sure I do that Versus watch Love is Blind season three again, or like something trashy that sometimes I just wanna Yeah. Sit down and veg out. So same, yeah.
Yeah. It's, it's really an ebb and flow like, Certainly I'm not perfect by any means. Um, still have to be very conscious, like looking at my water bottle and, and doing all the, yeah, all the, you both have waters here. Yeah. Let's, let's drink to.[00:32:00]
It's, it's tough.
Surabhi: It's tough. It's, and I'm, I'm grateful for your honesty, um, around that because I see so little honesty from not just physios fitness pros, like, you know, they make it seem like they're. Food is perfect. Their workouts are perfect. Yeah. And that they're, that they're wigging, you know, like those like eight hour, I'm exaggerating morning routines.
I wake up at 4:00 AM and I do an hour of meditation and I'm like, oh, need obviously a don't have kids because like that's impossible and it's not needed. And I don't think perfection is needed to experience better bowel and bladder health. Better sex and better. There you go. And so when we take that pressure off that we have to do things all the time, we realize, oh, our bodies are actually pretty resilient and strong, and they can actually feel pretty good, even though I'm not.
Mm-hmm. Even if I have a day of dehydration, I'm not gonna, you know, nothing's gonna happen. Right. Like, it's just mm-hmm. [00:33:00] Looking at big pictures and like taking that pressure off. Um, and I love that you said you, you know, I'd asked you about motherhood and can you talk about your patience and how motherhood has actually helped?
With patients. Yeah.
Patience and motherhood
Jane: Yeah. So I find this is a quality that I didn't have until I became a mother and is like compassion and patience for,, listening to my body, listening to like my mind and emotions and making a decision on, okay, is this really the best day to go out there and go for a run or do something high impact, um, and push through it?
Because, um, throughout my undergrad and master's program in, in Biochem, I, I. Was a varsity athlete. So you constantly hear things like you need to push through and you need to like, get in your training. Um, so yeah, a lot of that messaging, um, kind of pushed that aside and instead listened to what I needed that day.
Maybe it was just a foam [00:34:00] rolling session. Maybe it's just a 10 minute yoga session or a breathing session. Um, so I find at this point, like. The compassion is there, like is much more there than it was before. Yeah. Um, yeah. As a result of becoming a mother and realizing my body really just actually doesn't perform well if I'm not on great sleep.
Dehydrated, yeah. Eating poorly, skipping my meals and then trying to go for an intense, yeah. It doesn't work that way and.
Surabhi: And what kind of training or what you, you mentioned varsity athlete. What kind of training or what kind of sport?
Jane: Uh, so I was playing badminton for six years and then the year that I tried to boost my grades for physio school, I was, um, on the Dragon boat team.
So that's busy. Yeah, I was busy. Tons of, yeah, and I
Surabhi: think too, when you go from being an athlete, cuz that's kind of my journey too, is like when you go from being really athletic and training to them [00:35:00] becoming a mom, you're like, I can't do that anymore because yeah, life is busy and I have a tiny human and a body that's changing and, you know, it's, it's kind of a, I don't know.
Did your identity shift a little bit from, you know, what it was before? Yeah,
Priortizing self-care
Jane: I was just gonna mention it was a really tough time, um, with understanding like, like, I guess, I don't know if it's called an identity crisis, but I felt like I was having one, like I, I always felt like I could tie athlete into my identity and then suddenly postpartum, we purposely like didn't ask family for help cuz we were so fearful of covid.
Um, and so it, it was really tough. I didn't have the energy to go for even sometimes, even if it was just a walk, I didn't wanna get baby ready and do the whole
Surabhi: thing. Yeah. And Winter's here who, like, that's a mission bundling baby up and stuff. And I, uh, yeah, I agree. I went through that with my first baby as well.
Not so much with my second baby, cuz I think by then I had like accepted a lot of [00:36:00] that identity crisis or that identity loss and, you know. Yeah. And I, I actually think that that. Identity shift is healthy. I actually think that it's normal. We, we pathologizes like, oh, I lost my identity, but it's actually normal.
We've gone, undergone this immense transition. It would be weird if our identities didn't shift, you know, it would be weird if our activities didn't shift. Um, absolutely. When we have a child to take care of. And, um, I really resonate with that patience and compassion part because I don't think I had any compassion for myself before I would treat myself like mm-hmm.
A robot, like, oh, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. And having a child, you're like, I'm caring for this little being, making sure they eat, go to bed. Yeah. So that they are not cranky and tired. And you're like, but I could be doing this for myself too. Because Absolutely. You have those same basic needs of eat, sleep, comfort, you know, movement, all those basic threads and, , I think so many of us are so detached to ourselves [00:37:00] and from ourselves that we don't recognize that we have those same needs.
And motherhood has forced me to like reparent myself in the, in the same way that I'm parenting my kids.
Jane: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I think it's also made me like shift in mindset with, with work and career and business. Um, big time. I think that's can resonate with a lot of, like, entrepreneurs are like, yeah, people.
In business and how do I leverage the time that I have, um, to make the most of work, but yeah, but also have time for family. And so, yeah.
Surabhi: And it's, I think the other part is like the time and the energy because like mm-hmm. For me, I could look at my, I could be like, okay, the kids are on daycare from this time to this time.
I have six hours in between. Yes. But I could work all those six hours uhhuh, and then I have zero energy for when I pick up my kids and then I have no energy for that post childcare to bedtime, which is, yeah. [00:38:00] You know how that is Like that is, that takes a lot of energy and so for me it has been recognizing that I don't have a six hour workday.
I have maybe four of those hours because those other two hours I gotta make and eat lunch, and I gotta do something for myself, whether it's a workout, getting outside self-care, seeing my therapist, all of those things. And that is part of motherhood and running a business. And I think a lot of people, um, just look at it as time alone.
And it's also our energies, like our energies are so crucial for ourselves and for our, like our children, right? Mm-hmm. And tell me about how now. So tell me about what you offer now in terms of your work. So I know you're running all these sweet, uh, workshops and courses. Tell me about that.
Jane: Okay, so right now actually we're in the middle of offering our very affordable birth talks, um, and in preparing for birth, pregnancy pain, and, um, amazing.
[00:39:00] Constipation. Um, so we're running those twice a year as of this year. Nice. Um, we'll see next year if we're gonna do it twice or maybe offer something postpartum. So I think our audience has shifted now to postpartum and so those talks are still running. If you guys are interested, you can, um, check it out at pelvicpro.ca, um, and then
Surabhi: I'll share the link to that too.
Great. Thank you. And can they buy the replay if they missed the live?
Jane: Yes, you can always buy the replay and you can also buy the replay of our workshops, which is a much more comprehensive, um, it was a two hour talk that we gave earlier this year, so still very current. Um, but we actually got down and rolled out our yoga mats with everyone virtually and um, amazing.
Did a lot of movement. So a lot of people saw. Better poops right after our constipation talks. So yeah, I was much more active that first one. And I think moving forward we're gonna keep it workshops rather than shorter talks.
Surabhi: Um, so yeah. Yeah, cuz I feel like [00:40:00] the talks too, um, people can get a taste, but then they're, they want that like, yeah.
Okay, let's get that action and that result. So I love that you're listening to your audience and you know what works and, um, offering those things. I will share that they're all on Pelvic Pro ca so I'll share the link to that. Yes. And I have a few questions for you. I mean, I know we've been talking about you, but I have, uh, some final thoughts and I wanna get to know a little bit about you.
So can you tell me what you are reading or listening to right now and what's something that's been life, life changing?
Jane: So, um, I'm gonna share Maestro on the mic. And this is, um, Shante Cofield, someone's u someone that you actually introduced to me. Um, her podcasts are incredible for someone starting an online business, and I, because I've moved now to Woodbridge, Ontario, my commute is.
Suddenly super long and unpredictable. I listen to one or two of her podcasts on the way to work, [00:41:00] and yeah, her podcasts are, are just really great, honest, um, yeah, authentic and gives, gives you like a realistic view of what you're up going against. It's when you're, it's not like
Surabhi: those, bro, I feel like it's like the bro marketing, right?
Whether it's during fitness or business. You get those folks who are like, yeah, you just do this and in three months you're gonna make $10,000 a month. And you're like, what? Yeah. And then she's like, listen, this is like realistically you're gonna be putting in the time you're gonna be, you know? And I really appreciate that because just like, uh, when we're patients ourselves and we're going to a doctor or wherever we, we don't wanna be lied to, you know?
We want that honesty. Um, that's one of my favorite podcasts too. Love it. Do you read as well, do you mo or do you mostly podcast now? Uh,
Jane: I'm mo mostly podcast now. I have a ton of, I've been collecting business books that just get dusty. Yeah.
Surabhi: I've got a stack of books that I'm like, fall in winter. I'll read it all.
Jane: We'll see. Yeah, I think I'm, I'm [00:42:00] better off doing Audible, which I used to have a subscription to, but now yeah, just catching up on the books that I haven't. Listened to yet. So yeah. Nice. All the, all the fun business books there. Right now I'm on how to Do, what's the title again? How to. When Friends and influence people or something.
Surabhi: Something like that. Okay. Literally, my parents have this book on their bookshelf from like a, this is an old book, right? Yeah.
Jane: This one's an old one.
Surabhi: Um, yeah. And my parents have been like, you should read this book. And I'm like, I, you know how we, when we are parents say something, you're like, yeah, whatever.
You don't know anything. Well, I'm gonna go tell my mom. Oh, my friend told me about this book and she's gonna be like, I thought I told you about this like 20 years ago. Um, and it's a reminder to myself that my kids will probably do the same things to me too. That's where I'll tell them something, they won't listen, and then somebody else
Jane: tells them.
I'll say though, uh, as I'm following along with the guide, I will say, you're actually naturally doing a lot of the things that are in the book already. Cuz I'm [00:43:00] always like, Ugh. She's really good at doing this thing and she's always doing this on her page, so yeah, you're you're already kind of there.
Surabhi: Oh, wow.
There you go. Thank you. I'll, I'll, I won't read that book then, because I'm always like, what do I ask? You need to read. I have like, literally my bookshelf if you read it. Like, if I read all this, I think I would be a better human, like, you know, the books that I have? Mm-hmm. I just, I don't read in the summer.
There's too many good things to do outside, so I save it for the fall and winter. Okay. But I'm with you. I'm more of audio right now because I think my eyes are tired from like screens and whatnot. So I've been shifting a little bit more to audio like podcasts, so I'm like, I'm, I need to try an audiobook.
I haven't really been into audiobooks yet, but it's a good, oh, okay. No, it's a good reminder to do that. Tell me about what are three things you like to do for yourself every day? Three small things. Three
Jane: small things. Um, lemme see
Surabhi: self care stuff.
Jane: I know one thing that I had wrote, written down, I don't remember my other two already, but, um, one thing is I really like gratitude [00:44:00] journaling.
I have this like, amazing five year, um, it's a five year journal. I know that's a big commitment. Listen, I saw that. Okay. First
Surabhi: of all, I dunno how you stay organized because like you have, I remember you showed us once, like some cl and I'm like, Oh, first, like I am not organized enough for that, but I am impressed that you are.
Yeah. Um, and that is so cool. And you su do you write it down, you write your gratitude every day. Yeah,
Jane: I either write gratitude or it's like a reflection prompt if it's, I'm journaling at the end of the day.
Surabhi: So I Is this a journal that you bought or something that you
Jane: Yes. Yeah. So this is a very like bougie Japanese journal with very fancy paper that I use, like a little fancy pen to write.
Um, yeah, and it's, if you guys wanna know, it's called the hobo nche five year Tacho. Um, and I
Surabhi: gotta look this up because I feel like, and are you, so when, when are you gonna be done? Five years.
Jane: Uh, it's goes from 2020 to 2024, I [00:45:00] believe. Very cool. Or no? No, no. 21 to 25. Cuz I remember thinking I have to buy this.
It's perfectly like one to five, so,
Surabhi: and that's hilarious. Silly. Yeah. So that, okay, that's one thing. What else? Do you drink coffee? Do you go for walks? Yeah. What are like some other little self-care things that you find, kind of make you feel like you and make you feel like. I did this for me.
Jane: I love coffee.
So yeah, first thing in the morning, I will either make my coffee, pour over or grab a coffee. And that's, that's definitely a self-care thing. I think the final thing I would probably, um, I don't do this every day though, but I really like salt scrubs and I really like, um, exfoliating my skin and I find that ritual is almost like a nice thing to tie in, like shedding also the heaviness of the day.
If I got like a tough. Tough grouping of clients or heard some like crazy news about what this doctor said or Yeah, this [00:46:00] or the other. So salt scrubs, washing hands, or even just Yeah. Cleansing the body.
Surabhi: I love that. That is like, so, um, symbolic really, right? It's like, Pretty much everybody bathes, you know, daily or you know, regularly, and you can just use that as an opportunity for self-care by being a bit more mindful of, and, you know, even just visualizing those bad thoughts and negative energy.
Mm-hmm. Kinda going away. I love that. I'm gonna use that. Um, tell me about something you're passionate about right now. Um,
Jane: I'm very passionate about getting back to playing badminton. Not in a competitive setting, but in a very fun recreational. I find like my love for it kind of died a little bit, playing those six years of varsity badminton and now that I'm just doing it for me and doing it for fun, no tournaments, no pressure.
It's been really, really fun.
Surabhi: Nice. Really, really fun. Nice. Yeah. Um, and if you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?
Jane: It would be accessible and [00:47:00] affordable pelvic healthcare for the perinatal population and honestly, well, to everyone. Yeah, to everyone. But especially, um, surrounding pregnancy and having Yeah.
Affordable care, making sure it's, um, Advocating for pelvic health before, before, um,
Surabhi: things pregnancy and death. Before birth. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Exactly. Not enough people. See, I always think like, imagine we just support the mother. Like, imagine, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like the outcomes are not just better for the mother, but for the children and the families and the ripple effect that it has on every family.
Like, it just, I think that's absolutely, I would love to see that change too. And Jane, yeah. What would be, what would, what would you say is your mom's strength?
Jane: I think my mom's strength is what we talked about before, is just having more compassion for self. And through doing that, I feel like I can show up, uh, as a better me, um, for my kid, for my partner, for my clients.
Surabhi: [00:48:00] Um, I love that. Yeah. I love that because, you know, we think mom's strengths are like, I can throw the best birthday parties, I can, you know, make the cutest lunch. But it's like really, it's about like how we treat ourselves too, right? Mm-hmm. Because that's a reflection on then what we have left in our tank to like pull out.
Yes. Um, yeah. Thank you so much, Jane, for this wonderful conversation. Thank and for your thank you as well, honesty and sharing your journey. And I think so many of your clients are probably like, I'm so lucky to work with somebody who not only can help me, but also can relate to some of these things that I have been through.
Um, you just bringing that next level of empathy and compassion for, for the people you work with. And if people want to find you, chat with you, DM you, where's the best place?
Jane: The best place where I'm most active is Instagram. Um, so the handles at Pelvic Pro. Um, so yeah, you can find me there and DM me anytime.
Sounds good. I'm usually quick
Surabhi: to respond. Yeah. Awesome. [00:49:00] Thank you so much. And if you are a listener, you're so welcome. If you are a listener and you enjoy this conversation, please do me a favor and share this with an expecting parent or postpartum person or somebody in your life who you think this could benefit.
Thank you so much.
