57. Sexual, Clitoral and Vaginal Health with Dr Janelle Howell, Vagina Rehab Doctor

Written By Surabhi Veitch
MoSt #57: Sexual, Clitoral and Vaginal Health with Dr Janelle Howell, Vagina Rehab Doctor
Surabhi Veitch, The Passionate Physio

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Surabhi Veitch interviews pelvic physical therapist, Dr. Janelle Howell aka the Vagina Rehab Doctor on sexual pain, pelvic health, clitoris and vaginal health. We discuss the importance of a vagina that is mobile, strong and has good endurance to achieve orgasm. We also discuss the importance of mothers caring for themselves and prioritizing their own sexual satisfaction.

We discuss:

  1. Growing up in a sex positive household

  2. Common causes & contributors to pelvic dysfunction

  3. Tight vagina isn't the goal

  4. What makes a good vagina?

  5. How mental health impacts the pelvic floor

  6. Orgasms, pelvic floor mobility, strength and endurance

  7. Orgasms in postpartum and early motherhood

  8. Weak orgasms and pelvic floor laxity or looseness

  9. Sexual self-esteem and feeling like your body is failing you

  10. Vaginismus, vulvodynia and dyspareunia (sexual pain)

  11. How sexual pain and dysfunction impacts relationships

  12. It's time for mothers to stop putting up with pain and dysfunction

  13. The pressure to do it all and always putting kids first

  14. All about the clitoris

  15. Sexual satisfaction is the biggest predictor of your sex drive

  16. Sexual health is health

  17. PCOS, diabetes and sexual function

  18. The importance of carbohydrates and fibre for vaginal health

  19. Low libido

  20. Get your bloodwork checked postpartum

  21. Constipation and the low bar for health in North America

  22. Stop aiming for "normal" - aim to feel good in your body instead

  23. Your vagina is a mental health organ

  24. The importance of mental health support

  25. Looking at your work as a divine calling

  26. Hood feminism

  27. Janelle's hope for Christians

  28. Women of Color Pelvic Floor Physical Therapist directory

  29. Importance of avoiding cultural appropriation

Dr. Janelle Howell Bio

Dr Janelle Howell is the Vagina Rehab Doctor and spreads the vagina gospel. She's a pelvic physical therapist and a board certified women's health specialist, and she has over 193,000 followers on social media. Her primary audience are vagina CEOs, which is a term she coined, allowing folks who do not identify as women to also feel welcome. Jer content is focused on open, honest, and inspirational awareness regarding vaginal health, pelvic floor health, and reproductive health. Her self-proclaimed job is to create a global culture of radical vaginal health and unapologetic self-love and care through top-notch quality education and entertainment.

Connect with Dr Janelle Howell

Connect with Surabhi:

  • Surabhi: [00:01:30] Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Mom Strength. I'm your host Surabhi Veitch, and I am really excited to have on one of my favorite people who I've connected with through social media. Dr. Janelle Howell, you probably already know her. She is the Vagina Rehab Doctor and she's a pelvic physical therapist and a board certified women's health specialist, and she has over 163,000 followers on social media.

    And I know followers aren't everything, but let me tell you, her content is literally changing people's lives, changing people's lives, and she's helping people have better sex, have better pelvic floor health, have better vaginal health, nutrition, and also self-care. And I feel like she truly cares about her people.

    And you can see that in her content that she puts out. Her primary audience are vagina CEOs, which is a term she coined. and I love that it's an inclusive term, allowing folks who do not identify as women to also feel welcome. her content is focused on open, honest, and [00:02:30] inspirational awareness regarding vaginal health, pelvic floor health, and reproductive health.

    Her self-proclaimed job is to create a global culture of radical vaginal health and unapologetic self-love and care through top-notch quality education and entertainment. And it is entertaining. I love that your posts are humorous, entertaining, and, so easy to access for people who are new to the pelvic health world.

    Janelle, thank you so much for coming on here. Welcome, welcome.

    Janelle: Thank you so much, Surabhi, I'm excited to be here with you. You're one of my mentors in the space of pelvic physical therapy. I look on your page all the time and I'm so inspired, and I should have an album just for the post for you where I'm like, oh, I gotta repost this

    I gotta do some catch up with reposting because you post so many inspiring things that touch the heart and also humanize us as vagina CEOs and as moms, you know, with all the changes that our body can, um, can go [00:03:30] through, you really help us to feel powerful again and passionate again as, as your name suggests.

    So, yeah, thanks for having me on the podcast.

    Surabhi: I'm so pumped for this conversation. So, one of the things that I see on your page is that you're not afraid to talk about things that most people are kind of nervous or there's a stigma to talk about it. For example, pain with sex.

    It's just, it's a taboo topic. A lot of people hold that shame and stigma if they have any pelvic health concerns down there. Can you talk a little bit about that and what, what kinds of messages that you want people to know about their sexual health and their pelvic health?

    Janelle: Well, I think, you know, for sexual health, one of the, one of the things that I would love to see happen in the world is us just talk more about it, um, aside from just the superficial stuff, like, did you orgasm or, you know, how big was their penis? Or, you know, that stuff is, you know, it's funny and everything, but people are living and suffering through [00:04:30] real sexual pain, sexual dysfunction, and sexual problems.

    [00:04:34] Growing up in a sex positive household

    Janelle: Um, you know, when I was growing up, I grew up in a household where my parents talked about pretty much anything. Not in depth. They weren't giving me lessons. I will say that I wish my mom would've talked to me a little bit more in depth about vaginal health and sexual health. However, certain words that kids were just not saying, I wasn't ashamed to say it, like penis.

    I, I could probably just be sitting at the table and say, penis . And, you know, that was just normal for us. And, and, and my dad, he would say balls, you know? And it wasn't something that I was like, oh my gosh, we shouldn't be saying this. So I think that helped develop in me, um, something where I just was not scared to, to discuss it.

    Um, you know, and I was also little, my parents made it very important to let us know when we couldn't go in their bedroom. I mean, and at a certain point you, you know, what's happening. It's like, okay, they have their time for themselves. And our parents were very affectionate. You know, they kissed. And I [00:05:30] got to see all of that.

    So for me, I grew up in a household where, physical affection and sex was normal. It wasn't like this nasty, can't talk about it thing. It was just a part of life and I saw it from a healthy angle. So I think that helped. So I think the first thing is that we have to start talking about, I mean, we would be surprised how many people have sexual dysfunction.

    I think up to 75% of women and people who are born with female genitalia have sexual dysfunction. So at at the end of one's life, not, not now, but at some point you're either gonna have sexual pain, you're gonna have some dryness, you're not gonna be able to orgasm. I mean, these things, these things are so common.

    Surabhi: But yet I've hit all three of those check marks before, right Al already. Right. And it's exactly there. There's two things I wanna say there. As a parent myself, that's really heartwarming because I didn't grow up in a family like that where these conversations were normalized.

    But that helps me, you know, if I normalize this in my household, if my partner and I, how my kids, [00:06:30] when they grow up, they're gonna feel empowered to just talk openly. I remember my daughter, she's four and a half now, but when she was three we were at my parents, you know, we're Indian, raised, kind of religious, we don't talk about these things.

    On my wedding day, my mom gave me this like mat and is like, this is for your actions tonight. And I was like, what? Like, like literally she gave me a mat to put on the bed because sex is dirty and so we don't wanna get the bed. Like there's so much to unpack there.

    But I remember my daughter sitting at the dinner table and she was like, my hair is nipple length. And she's just stating a fact. It's just nipple length. And my parents were like, so awkward. And I'm like, yeah, it is nipple length. And then, you know, my mom was giving her a bath and she's like, no, soap on my vulva. And like just so confident saying these things. And I'm like that as a mom I'm so proud.

    But also it's helping me take layers of shame off of like the way I was raised where these kinds of conversations weren't normalized. So I love [00:07:30] that you share that about your household and how we need to have these conversations, say these words because they're not dirty words.

    Um, and 75% of people are living Yeah. With sexual dysfunction at some point in their lives.

    [00:07:43] Humanizing painful sex and making it relatable

    Janelle: Absolutely. Yeah. It, and it's, um, it really get opens up the space for us as pelvic physical therapists to connect with our audience when we don't just talk about it from, well, at least from me, I try not to talk about it only from a clinical standpoint, but just make it sound more real like everyday stuff that people are going through.

    I think that is going to captivate someone a bit more than just, all right, if you have pain with sex, please make sure that you go visit your doctor. But if you, if you talk about it from a standpoint of, you know, girl, I went over there and I thought we was gonna have a good time and he could only do three strokes and we was done, you know, , like, something like that.

    I mean,

    Surabhi: listen, that's something we [00:08:30] can all relate to too, right? We all know exactly what you're talking about there. Yeah. Um, and you know. I think one of the reasons we don't reach out for support is partly we don't even know that there is support for these things. Partly it's, oh, we just thought that this was normal or there was nothing wrong here.

    This is info we all need to hear. Right? And not just in grade seven health class, but we need to hear as adults cuz it's adults making these decisions.

    [00:08:57] The importance of clinicians being comfortable talking about sex

    Janelle: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it starts with a conversation and it starts with how comfortable we are. I mean, sometimes I do see, um, other clinicians on, on social media and we're talking about similar things, but the comfort level, I think around the conversation could be a little bit lighter.

    Not that we have to because we are professionals and I feel like we should be able to come to the media space in a professional manner, and everyone is not going to have that comical, entertaining, and you don't have to. But I think that if your [00:09:30] patient sees that you're not comfortable talking about things, then they're not gonna be comfortable dealing with bringing it up or talk.

    Yeah. So I think we can start to get very comfortable with talking about the ins and outs of not just sexual function, but bladder, bowel, you know, postpartum dysfunction, all, all the things. .

    [00:09:53] Common causes & contributors to pelvic dysfunction

    Surabhi: Yeah. And so if somebody is dealing with pain, with sex of any kind, pain, discomfort, what would be, what are some things that you look at?

    What are some causes, contributors, treatments? Yeah.

    Janelle: Um, one of the things for sure I look at is their overall muscle tone. You know, we've been told for so many decades that our vagina is supposed to be tight, so it's really hard to completely unravel that or, you know, dismantle that. In a few years because I think honestly within the past few years it's been more mainstream, at [00:10:30] least in the social media space for pelvic physical therapy, and that's still a small bubble.

    [00:10:34] Tight vagina isn't the goal

    Janelle: There's the rest of the world that have never even heard of pelvic physical therapy, and they're still under the mindset that the, the tightest that your vagina can be the best, you know, disclaimer, obviously the, the vagina naturally has tone and it, you know, if a penis or toy goes in it, it would hug that object.

    Beyond that. I mean, it doesn't need to be like this grip monster where the person can barely breathe. And, you know, when I do my exam, sometimes I, I'm praying for my finger. I'm like, my finger is getting strangled in there. It's horrible. I'm like, this is dysfunction. And it's part of the reason why sex hurts.

    Not just why sex hurts, but why you're not getting wet. Because if it, if it's hurting, you're not gonna be getting wet. If it's uncomfortable, you're not gonna be getting wet. Um, you're not gonna be orgasmic . Mm-hmm. . I mean, so I think we, we just need to talk about that, like [00:11:30] mobility, flexibility in the pelvic floor, which is the muscles that support our, our pelvic organs like bladder, bowel, um, uterus.

    just like we wanna have flexibility in our hips and our back. The same thing needs to be there for the muscles that surround the vagina. And so I think that really staying there for a while and just saying, Hey, can you feel things moving well down there as opposed to like this little squeeze where we assume it might be weak, but it's probably actually tight for, for most of my, my patients that I worked with in urogynecology, it was tension that was the issue.

    Surabhi: Yeah, same.

    Janelle: So that's where, that's where I love to start just cause we, we gotta stay there. I mean, as much as we would like to think that all we have to do is say it once your vagina needs to be mobile, flexible, strong, and have that, you know, that flexibility there, that I think that's gonna take a while for people to not just know, but accept and embrace.

    [00:12:30] Because for, for many women and people with vaginas, it's like, a, a trophy. like, oh, I got this tight vagina and he could only last three seconds. And girl, and it's like, girl, who's winning? ? ? Who's winning from this

    Surabhi: like three seconds? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like when you were saying that, I do remember when I was y like I've had two kids vaginally, right?

    So mm-hmm. . I actually think that things feel a lot better because I, I was too tight before and I didn't realize it till after I had kids and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like everyone was afraid for the first time sex postpartum. For me it was the best, cuz I was like, That deep pain isn't there anymore. That pain isn't there anymore because Yeah, my kids just my, my stretched it all out and Yeah.

    Released a lot of tension. Yeah. And tone that I was holding. And sometimes you don't even realize you have mild dysfunction. Maybe it wasn't impacting you in a big way, but it was still there. Yeah.

    [00:13:25] What makes a good vagina?

    Surabhi: And it's the Kegels and the endless, you know, doctors handing out [00:13:30] prescriptions to, oh, do more Kegels.

    Here's an app that will help you do more Kegels. And so women are thinking, or people with vaginas are thinking this is what they need to do and it's often making their pain with sex even worse.

    Janelle: Absolutely. And I love what you said about how you know when you are, when you are constantly thinking that you need to continually tighten and you know, things are not getting better.

    I think what we then hold onto for our ego boost is what we think a good vagina is. You know, what we think, um, You know, even, I don't know if people who listen to this podcast have heard of Cardi B. She's a, she's a rapper, and on her Instagram bio it literally says, I have a Grammy award-winning vagina,

    And, and in my head, I'm just thinking, I wonder what people actually think that Grammy award-winning vagina is. Because for most people that are not in the medical space, are pelvic physical [00:14:30] therapy space specifically, it's tight and wet. And that those are the only two barriers and it is strong, which they think is tight.

    They think tight is synonymous with strong, which it's not. Yeah. So it's not so girl, there's so much work to do in this space, and it, it goes beyond just sex. It's it's relationships. It, it gets into your security, uh, because if you're leaking and you constantly gotta go pee, that messes with your self-esteem the, the confidence in your body.

    Little do you know that it could be because you're too tense and not weak, so, and then, and then when we look at the amount of people who have PT floor dysfunction, who also have mental health disturbances, oh my gosh. I mean it's, it's ridiculous. So we're helping people on multiple levels, but we can get them to better understand their pelvis and the way it wants to work.

    [00:15:26] How mental health impacts the pelvic floor

    Surabhi: I love that. And I think the mental health piece is important because [00:15:30] even if someone is dealing with mental health issues, it doesn't mean that they have to then go see a therapist or get on meds and do deal with that first before they can also simultaneously deal with their pelvic health. And sometimes dealing with pelvic health, like I always get tell people, breathe unclench, move.

    Breathe, unclench, your all the holes, jaw, you know, and then move. And even just simple tips like that helps people check in with their mental health throughout the day because they're like, oh, you know what? I was really stressed when I was talking to my kid's teacher. And I like let go of that tension.

    And so that's impacting their mental health and their physical health. So I think as pelvic health physical therapist, we have a huge role in not just addressing the pelvis, but the whole person in front of us. Mm-hmm. .

    I remember going to see a gynecologist before I had kids and I had said oh, I don't feel, I don't get as wet as I did at, when I was 20 or like, you know, whatever age.

    And I'm like, it's probably aging. And she's like, you know, that's not true. Like, you're not, you're not perimenopausal, you're not menopausal. Like, you can't blame [00:16:30] it on that. She's like, there's something else. And she was right. I was really stressed. I was going through a lot of stuff at work and there was a lot going on mentally.

    And if she hadn't made that comment, I never would've linked it together. I would've just been like

    Janelle: you're saying now you've been juicy.

    Surabhi: Yeah. Yeah. Well, but

    Janelle: now I can then recover. The waterfall has returned

    Surabhi: the waterfalls. I mean, I, I, I, I won't say it's the same as it was when you were like 15 and like someone says the word and you're like, game on.

    Right, right. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. I shouldn't say 15, 18. Let's, let's go at least of age. Yes. , um,

    Janelle: save yourself 18. 18. Yeah. I gotta say, yeah.

    Surabhi: Take back what I said. 18. Yeah. 21 if my mom's 23, 23

    But yeah, it's, you know, these conversations are important in the Indian culture, we like the Kama Sutra right? Everyone knows the sex book, it's Indian. Sex is very common. People, there's a huge population. But yeah, we don't talk about it. So people are all also doing it a [00:17:30] lot, but they're also never talking about it.

    And like, there's this huge disconnect. And so no matter what culture you're in, if you're listening to this, . Everybody does it. Everybody poops. Everybody has sex. We need to be talking about these things.

    [00:17:42] Orgasms, pelvic floor mobility, strength and endurance

    Surabhi: Um, can you talk about what an orgasm is and how that has to do with pelvic floors?

    Janelle: Yeah, so an orgasm is the best thing that can happen when you're having sex, um, just kidding. Just kidding, . Cause some people are not, or some people are not orgasming, but they're still having amazing experiences. But an orgasm is like the climax.

    So it's when you feel an intense amount of pleasure, um, primarily in the pelvic region. Clitoris in the vagina and you, you feel like you get transported to some land of bliss for a second, and then it just kind of comes back down. You might feel like contractions, you might look like you're having a, like a seizure, or you might be a little bit less intense, but you still feel like a contraction where your muscles are pulsing your pelvic floor [00:18:30] muscles, so the muscles around your vagina, anus, even your uterus contracts when you're having a orgasm and helps with the strength of that orgasm.

    Um, because the, the vagina is connected to some of the pelvic floor muscles. The vagina is connected to the cervix, cervix, uterus. So they're all working together to give you that, that powerful sensation of pleasure and release. What we don't talk about though is that it's the pelvic floor muscles that are contracting during the orga.

    So then that means that how much the pelvic floor can actually move is going to impact the orgasm. Also, how long your pelvic floor can contract and hold, because that helps us with arousal. So while we're getting aroused, the muscles are somewhat tensing more because of the intense pleasure. And during that, that phase when the pelvic floor muscles are tensing up, they're contracting on the head of your clitoris.

    Um, the bulbocavernosus, the [00:19:30] ischiocavernosus attaches to the corpus cavernosum of the clitoris. And so during that time, that's helping to trap more blood in your clitoris, and that's helping to make the nerves more sensitive cuz more blood is getting trapped. So it's kind of like filling with blood. So essentially we're getting a clitoral erection.

    Mm-hmm . So strength of the pelvic floor, but also endurance of the pelvic floor. There was a study, um, that looked at pelvic floor muscle function in women who orgasm and also women who are just having more sex. And what they found was that the strength actually was not that different, but the endurance of the pelvic floor was different.

    So I think it's bidirectional by having more sex, you're gonna build endurance in your pelvic floor muscles cuz that's every time you're having sex that your, that's your pelvic floor working. But then also if you just have more endurance in your pelvic floor. then that is going to contribute to more sexual satisfaction, maybe a stronger orgasm.

    So then that's gonna drive you to [00:20:30] wanna have sex more . Yeah. So you know it, it's all connected. But the pelvic floor is, is very vital. I mean, for some people that are having difficulty having an orgasm, we could look at, well, can you contract your pelvic floor in a certain way? You might just need a little bit more force production.

    Or it might be the opposite. A lot, and I, and I say a lot of people that I work with, cuz I work with sexual pain a lot. Most of my hypertonic babes, my too tight, my tense, they can't, they can't get to that orgasm or they have to try so hard. They're clenching their whole body. They're clenching toes . They had legs together.

    They're, they look like they're strangling their bodies to get to this orgasm , because their pelvic floor is so contracted. It can't go anywhere else. It can't go anywhere else. Yeah. So they have to get the tension from somewhere else to help build that tension. Cause the pelvic floor is like, sorry, we're up to here.

    We can't do nothing else.

    [00:21:23] Orgasms in postpartum and early motherhood

    Surabhi: We can't help. And you know, this is a very, very common thing we see in you. Mothers. I'm not talking like three weeks postpartum, [00:21:30] like in the first few years to be honest. What will happen is people will say, oh, my orgasms aren't as good. I have trouble getting, you know, orgasming.

    And there's many like other factors. You know, your kid's crying, you're sleep deprived, you're exhausted. There's all those other factors, hormones. And also changing your changing relationships. Like before we used to do regular date nights and now it's like date. Date a quarter, like every quarter we get out for a date because it's just hard and the kids are sick.

    Then you, you plan something, you gotta cancel it. So there's other factors, but even in the pelvic floor itself, what you just said is if you are too tight, and your doctor's telling you, even if you have a c-section, you might think, oh, I don't have any pelvic floor issues. But then now you're doing all the Kegels ,cuz you feel weaker down there.

    Yeah. And that's actually contributing to your weaker orgasms.

    [00:22:17] Pelvic floor laxity or looseness and weak orgasms

    Janelle: Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I had a, I had a client this week who kind of a little bit of the, of the opposite spectrum. Um, she's pregnant for the second time and she's just feeling more space down there. So more laxity [00:22:30] during intercourse. She's not feeling as much of the penis going in and out.

    So of course that would be on the other, um, on the other side of not enough tone. And so for her, she's still achieving the orgasm, but it's weak. She's saying it does not feel the same. She's not satisfied with those orgasms and she just doesn't feel as confident in her body, um, anymore. So I think the, the whole, what we're trying to say here is as pelvic physical therapist is balance, muscular balance where no, we don't want the vagina to be, you know, Wide open and you, it's like a, a hotdog going through a hallway , right?

    We don't, we don't want that. But at the same time, we don't want it to be so tense that the muscle no longer can contract and it no longer can contract with enough force. So then that's gonna impact, not even, not even just orgasm, your actual sex drive

    [00:23:19] Sexual self-esteem and feeling like your body is failing you

    Surabhi: and your self-esteem, your sexual self-esteem, everything.

    Lemme tell you when I, like, I've had sexual dysfunction and it is like, um, it's hard to not take it personally. [00:23:30] Like you feel like your body's failing you. And for anyone listening who's like, oh my gosh, like that's how I feel. It's normal because it's such a, it's part of your life. And you know, it's just like people, athletes, when they have their ACL tear, they go through a, you know, psychological, sometimes a crisis and they feel really, their whole life is impacted by it.

    Same thing happens with sexual health. And you know, I love how you said the more you do it, the better it gets. And that's like, it makes sense because if we treat sexual activities like running or any kind of physical activity, it makes sense. The more you do it, the better endurance you have, the better you get at it.

    Right. But some people are so turned off that they kind of are like, oh, I'll wait for it to improve before we, you know, get back to it. And then they just wait for it to get better and then it just, it nothing improves. Right. Yeah. And so it's important, that's an important point is that you don't have to just wait for everything to be, um, stronger before you get better orgasms.

    It's actually doing it more can help with that. Yeah.

    [00:24:27] Vaginismus, vulvodynia and dyspareunia (sexual pain)

    Surabhi: And what about the pain part? Because we know that a [00:24:30] lot of people hold tension. You mentioned, you know, when you put a finger in, in the vagina and it's really tight. Can you explain, cuz I know vaginismus is and vulva, those are things that you often talk about and that can often cause pain with sex too.

    Janelle: Oh yes. I'm, I'm glad you said that. So we don't talk about this enough. Um, up to 17% of people have vulvodynia, um, worldwide. So, and that's a lot, that's a lot of people. That's a lot. Okay. So Vini is when any part of the vulva is, is hurting. It could be your clitoris, it could be your labia, it could be right around the vaginal opening, and it usually feels like burning, but could, there could be other feelings as well.

    Um, and so there's, there's many contributing factors, but one of the contributing factors is too much tension in the pelvic floor muscles, um, which can be driving hypersensitivity of the nerves and contributing to, you know, just too much, uh, too much. Obviously you shouldn't be feeling any pain, but allodynia is [00:25:30] when you feel pain, when a painful stimulant has not been exerted.

    So we're not scraping you, you're not, we're not putting a needle through your vulva, but yet you feel this burning sensation with just touch. Or it can be unprovoked where you're not even touching it and you're having like burning or achiness around your, your inner lips or your coochie lips, or your, whatever you wanna call it, labia minora.

    but then there's, then there's vaginismus where the muscles surrounding the vaginal opening and the overall pelvic floor are, are too 10. But whenever sex is attempted, the our vaginal insertion is attempted, so also tampons and pelvic exams, speculums fingers. Then the vaginal opening closes, so there's a muscle that surrounds the vaginal opening.

    That muscle completely closes whenever there's an attempt at insertion these two conditions in addition to dyspareunia, which is just painful sex, where, mm-hmm. It can happen, right? It's going in, but it's hurting.

    [00:26:28] How sexual pain and dysfunction impacts relationships

    Janelle: Those three conditions are [00:26:30] so common, and when I tell you it's impacting one's whole life. I talked to someone who this week who says she's no longer dating, she just doesn't want to do any, she's stopped dating.

    She's tired of disclosing that information. As soon as she meets someone, like, Hey, I wanna let you know that my, my, my Volvo burns and if we try to have sex, it's probably not gonna happen. Or maybe someone else who can't have sex because of Imagina, it can't get in. Mm-hmm. . And they wanted to, they're trying to relax, they're trying to drink the wine, they're trying to use the, the lube.

    They're doing all the things and it's not working. So, you know, talking about more of these, these conditions are, are so helpful because it even helps to, to get people to realize that, Hey, I shouldn't be putting up with painful sex because you have the people where the sex is, is so painful. It's extreme, right?

    And we know that their life is impacted. But then you have the people who, where it's like maybe mild to moderate pain and they're just settling cuz they don't even know that they can see someone about it, or they're just so [00:27:30] used to it. Mm-hmm. , it's like, yeah, I just do it because I mean, my partner, I want my partner to be happy.

    So the more we talk about, I'll say, actually you don't have to settle for this. Your sexual function is very much connected to your mental health. And I mean, think about all the endorphins that are released when you have good sex, that feels great, that you feel more connected to your partner. You can also be more sexual and you can liberate yourself a a little bit more when you're not feeling that pain.

    Um, so it helps. And there, girl, there's just so much to go here. I could, I could just continue rambling on. So you, you just let me know, when you're ready for me to stop and,

    Surabhi: you know, you know what you just said there about, I was thinking back to. Um, a few times before I had kids where I did have pain with sex and for me it was actually a lot related to stress.

    And so whatever I was going, whatever was, whatever was happening in my life, you know how your pelvic floor carries trauma carries. If you're stressed, you tail tuck your tailbone in, you're clenching. And that was something I never [00:28:30] linked until you know, much later on. And I never thought it was bad enough to actually get help.

    And me being, I was a physical therapist working in orthopedics at the time and so many times it's normalized for folks with vulvas, women, to just feel less than, to feel subpar. It's okay for us to feel subpar, but if, if a man has even a paper cut, he's screaming about it. Right. So it's, and, and you know, there's the other extreme where men have to suck it up and be macho and not talk about things too.

    [00:29:01] It's time for mothers to stop putting up with pain and dysfunction

    Surabhi: But there's a lot of women who, and I I work at, with a lot of mothers, so I see this there. They feel awful, but they're, they're okay with it because it's just been normalized for us to put it, put up with it and Yeah. And,

    Janelle: and that's canceled.

    Surabhi: That's canceled. Yeah. We, we, we can't, we can't be dealing with this, this anymore.

    Janelle: And, and what message, what message, especially cuz I know you work with a lot of moms. What message are we sending to our, our daughters and, and our sons and our kids that we just put up with [00:29:30] toxicity, we just put up with pain. You know, we, we don't stand up for ourselves or at least communicate when we're feeling something that's not right, only to let someone get off. I mean, that's, would you want your child to be that way?

    Surabhi: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And I also love that, you know, something that I've talked to my, uh, daughter and my son too. He's two now. So he's just starting to kind of comprehend more, is like when I go to see my therapist, when I go for self-care, I literally, explicitly say, oh, mommy needs this and wants this so that I feel better and I feel, you know, my best.

    And so my kids are learning that, oh, it's not just, you know, first of all, the world doesn't revolve around me. Cuz kids often growing up in North America, they literally think the world revolves around them. When you grow up in Asia and other parts of the world, kids are part of the family, but they're not the family.

    You know, the parental units, they're the head of the household. And so they make sure that the kids also value the parents. It's not just that [00:30:30] we're, you know, in North America we value our children, we will sacrifice the most amount of money for the best stroller for them, the best outfits, the cute, you know, Christmas photos, but we won't sacrifice even a dime on our own health.

    And that means,

    Janelle: girl, that was a sermon right there. Yeah. Like, we need to go to India for a while and just take in the culture. Listen,

    Surabhi: because there's a lot of issues there too, because, you know, there's a lot of issues there too. But the, the family value system is different. Yeah, yeah,

    Janelle: yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, there are problems in every country, but the family unit is, is foundational to society at large.

    I mean, the family creates the people who go to work and then these workers create their communities. The communities create the city. City creates the state, state. . So I, I feel that when you improve the family unit, and when I say improve again, create balance. Yeah. If everything is focused on the happiness of the child and you're not looking at the parents, I mean, literally sometimes it's just asking for help.

    Yeah. Sometimes you don't have the [00:31:30] help and you have to be there with the kid. You can't go on any date. You can't have sex. The baby's always, but I mean, sometimes it's calling your friend and saying, Hey, can you watch my child for like two hours while we go out? Yeah. But we're, we're not thinking about that.

    Like you said, and I say we, but I don't have any kids. But I, but you work with, you work with folks with, and of course I work in the postpartum world quite a bit. So many women, um, have, you know, the, the tears, the perennial tears. I worked with a lot of women who had traumatic birth experiences. So whether it was forceps or whether it was vacuum delivery, or whether it was third and fourth degree tears, I didn't even do first and second.

    So, uh, the, the common thing is that most of these women would come in and say, Janelle, I gotta tell you, I love my husband. But he just don't help. He's just not, he's just not doing, I love him. He's a good man, [00:32:30] a good man, but he's not helping me. And so that is a lot of stress, anxiety, they're overwhelmed and all of that could, I think, be improved.

    Yeah. If we, like you said, honored the parental, uh, the, the parental units a bit more, and especially the mom

    Surabhi: and especially the, the birthing parents. And you know, a part of it is the systemic. Like there's systemic issues in the US I know there's like no mat leave, you know, one in four women are going back to work two weeks after birth.

    Like that is not helping their physical recovery, their mental recovery, emotional recovery, sexual health, nothing. And then there's the other aspect of it is that the people who, you know, in Canada we have up to 18 months maternity leave, right? Unpaid or paid, depending if you have employment insurance.

    So it is, it is really good.

    Janelle: But you're self a employed, so,

    Surabhi: but I'm self-employed,

    Janelle: so, well your next baby you'll just, you know, be at home.

    Surabhi: There is no next baby that, that,

    Janelle: I know. That was my [00:33:30] way of asking .

    Surabhi: I see what you did there. Yeah.

    [00:33:35] The pressure to do it all as a parent and always putting kids first

    Surabhi: Um, but yeah, like, you know, it's people who can afford care for themselves. They, they can afford help, but there's this pressure to do it all yourself and appear like you're doing it all yourself. That's why I talk about it. I'm like, we hired a house cleaner. Don't look at the mess. It's still messy, you know, don't, don't expect things to be perfect. Yeah. My kids just, we're not signing them up for a million things.

    I don't want them to be Olympic athletes. I just want them to be happy and just feel loved. Right. And they need just our time and attention. And even without signing them up for a million activities. They still barely get our time and attention with how busy the days are. So why, why do we wanna, you know?

    Yeah. I, I really do think that the culture, entire culture needs to change, but we also can't wait for it to change. We have to also be the change ourselves.

    Janelle: So, so I'm glad you said that about, you know, the kids doing a million things. Cause one thing that I've noticed, and I did a lot of observation, the, the, the [00:34:30] background that I grew up in was a church background.

    So religious Christian, um, seven Day Adventist. My mom was very involved in church. She, some of the things that she did was parenting, so she had a parenting club. And one of the things I noticed is that it seems as though before you have kids, your value comes from what you've achieved in life. Like titles, degrees, money, house, cars.

    But then after you have kids, it becomes how much your kids. My kid just graduated top of the class and he's on the basketball team. And, and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course you're gonna be proud of your kids cuz you're raising them and they're a part of you. But then I think, well, what are you doing for yourself?

    I mean, so many people get lost in their kids and I'm just like, your kids achievement. Yes. You share that achievement because I mean, you guys have the same bloodline, but then also I th think there should be a distinction between what you wanna do in your life. What are some of the goals that you had?

    Don't let go of those things. Um, and I [00:35:30] think my mom, you know, she was more of the sacrifice, put her dreams on hold for decades. She just recently got her master's. I'm so proud of her.

    Surabhi: That's amazing.

    Janelle: You know, amazing. She's doing more for herself. She's getting into real estate. She's, she's doing the things that I think she wanted to do, but I think in her mind, the way she grew up,

    To give all, I'm not that generation too, right.

    Generation saying, give it all to your kids, sacrifice everything, because the way you raise your kids depends how they grew up. And to a certain extent, yes. But again, balance, the, the word for today on the podcast is balance.

    Surabhi: Balance, yeah. And, you know, and balance is hard to achieve. So it's not like, oh, check mark, I've made it.

    It's a constant, constant effort. And I love that you said that because I, so, I'm a because I go all in, whatever I'm doing. I think I, I hit that burnout faster. Some, some moms, they're still like, I, I remember working with the mom. She's got three kids. She's like very high achieving job shows up before everybody else, works all day.

    Makes her kids. [00:36:30] I kid you not, three different lunches perfectly, you know, cooks them food from scratch herself. Her husband, I don't know what he does, but she's doing it all. She is so stressed, so burnt out. But I, I saw that, I'm like, that is not, that is not for me a goal

    Janelle: that is here. So do you think she gains that she gains fulfillment from this?

    Ha Has she actually said that she's stressed?

    Surabhi: She is, but she doesn't, she also enjoys the other stuff. And I said you, like, I know for me, I work with clients who are like, but I love cooking. I love, you know, doing this for my kids. I love seeing the joy on their faces. And I said, how about what makes you see the joy on your own face too?

    Because, ooh, it's not just about, I love seeing, obviously I would love to see my kids smile all the time. I would do anything for that smile. It's so beautiful and it's so heartwarming. But then you forget that you're also a human being and you also need to do those things for yourself. So when my daughter is about.

    I would say 18 months. I, 15 to 18 months. That's when I was like, okay, no more of this. And [00:37:30] that's quick. Most, most parents don't hit that point until their kids are like 15 and 18. And they move out of, yeah. Move out of their house. And, uh, I, for me, I, I, I was all in that first year, every holiday, everything.

    I made it big for her. And I was like, I wanna give her all the opportunities I didn't have as an immigrant. But then I was like, wait, she's only a baby. She's not gonna remember any of this. And these things don't actually matter to her. A sane mom who's not stressed out and burnt out and you know, feels awful in her body.

    That's what matters more. And I see so many moms feel like crap in their bodies and I want them to know that they can get help, even if it's just, if, even if you're busy, there's things you can do that are so small, that you can start to make a major impact in your pelvic floor health, your sexual health.

    Yeah. Um, can you talk a little bit about the clitoris? Because everybody thinks that the clitoris is a button .

    Janelle: Oh my gosh.

    Surabhi: Yeah. And that it's like this small, um, yes. What is it and how, how big is it?

    Janelle: Let's get into, yeah, [00:38:30] let's get into the clitoris. Um, Surabhi, I wanna say one thing before we get to the clitoris, if you don't mind.

    Yeah. While we're on the topic of mom hood and mom life, I have to say this cause we're talking about pelvic floor health and sexual health that you, it's okay to lock the door and go have sex. Like it's okay to go put the TV on for the kids or put them in that rocker. And it's okay if the baby cries. I know it's hard for moms to hear your baby crying.

    Um, but can you turn the music up so you can't hear them crying? , like literally your baby or child is not gonna die if you take. 30 minutes or 25 to go do something

    Surabhi: or three seconds

    Janelle: yeah. I mean, I think cause it, it helps to restore some of that, the feeling of you as you and not just you as mom. Yeah.

    Because before, I mean this is what led to the baby, your sex life.

    Surabhi: You know, this is the message I need to Yeah.

    Janelle: For something like that. Yeah. so helping to restore that identity of you having your own life. [00:39:30] Yeah. Um, I think is important. Okay. Just really needed to say that you can lock the, the door.

    Surabhi: No, thank you for saying that.

    Janelle: I feel, put a lock on the door.

    Surabhi: Put a lock on the door. We don't have a lock on our door, but we have a lock on their door so they can't get out. Uh, because they were, my daughter was getting out in the middle of the night watering the plants one night, like in her sleep. I was like, this is unsafe. She was climbing up to the kitchen, pouring herself cereal.

    I was like, she's gonna lock on the door. But I love

    Janelle: She wasn't bothering you all though. She was, she wasn't doing her own thing. She was playing with, she said, lemme go ahead and water these plants.

    Surabhi: You know, one night Tom woke up and he was like, what is happening? And she, he was like, I died laughing. She was literally had the watering can, but she was, I kid you not two, two and a half this kid. Anyways,

    Janelle: they, she's taking better care of her plants than I am at the age of 32

    Surabhi: and better care than me. But, uh, thank you for saying that because I wish that I heard that message as a new mom because I definitely felt like a part of my womanhood was taken away when I became a mom. Yeah. Like these, the breasts were only [00:40:30] for feeding the baby.

    Like, it, everything became so about the baby and not about Oh, it's for also for myself,

    Janelle: like your manufacturing system. You know?

    Surabhi: That's what I felt like. I was like, I feel like I'm just a machine for someone else now. Right. And it took me a long time to actually feel like my body was mine again. And yeah. Um, we don't have to rush the process.

    Sometimes that process takes some time, but I think what you just said, it's okay to lock the door and prioritize your sex life and these are all, these are all important things. .

    [00:40:59] All about the clitoris

    Surabhi: Okay. Let's get into the clitoris.

    Janelle: The clitoris. Okay. The clitoris is. Okay. So we, we typically think about penis, vagina. Right? Penis. Vagina. Like they're the two, the two organs sexually. The major players. Yeah. That, that's wrong. The vagina is the reproductive organ. Okay. It's, it's the place for the blood to get out, your cervical fluids get out, babies to get out and penis to get in, to get the sperm inside.

    That is the purpose of the vagina. Now, can sex feel good with something going in and outta the vagina? [00:41:30] Yes, because the clitoris, is close to the vagina, but the clitoris is our pleasure organ. It is literally very similar to the penis. So our clitoris should be getting big when we are aroused. Now, it won't get super big every time,

    Surabhi: Cause obviously you're not gonna grow penis. Yeah. .

    Janelle: Right? You're not gonna have a penis down there if you were born, uh, with a vagina unless, uh, uh, you have a surgery. But the thing is that we don't pay attention to those things. All we do is okay. The penis owner, he, they're hard. Okay, great. All right. Um, what about you are, are you hard?

    Because the, the, the more aroused you get, the more that clitoris is going to grow and expand with blood. The, the easier it is it's going to be for you to have your orgasm. And the stronger, the strong your orgasm will be. This is what helps create sexual satisfaction. one.

    [00:42:23] Sexual satisfaction is the biggest predictor of your sex drive

    Janelle: Sexual satisfaction is one of the biggest predictors of your sex drive, and we could just stay there for a bit [00:42:30] because that means I have never talked to someone who has a high sex drive that tells me that their sex sucks.

    Hmm, I wanna have sex all the time, but it's horrible. Girl. . I never orgasm. It feels horrible. I don't feel like I'm getting aroused and, and it, and it, and it's painful. And I, I don't, I don't see that happening. When I hear from people that they have high sex drive and they enjoy sex, the sex for them and sex looks different for everyone is good.

    So then if we focus on positions that stimulate the clitoris more, if we focus on, um, more foreplay that may involve clitoral stimulation for longer periods of time before penis and vagina, if we focus on educating ourselves on how the clitoris works. Quick plug for my, for my classes coming up next year.

    Yeah. I'm doing a CLER anatomy class for educators, all pelvic educators, a lot of instructors, nurses, [00:43:30] physical therapists. We're gonna talk about it from a scientific standpoint on the research that we do have. I mean, obviously there's not a whole bunch of research, but let's talk about the research that we do have and really get, get down to this because it's not prioritized even among the medical community.

    I've never had a gynecologist ask me anything about my clitoris. Never. And I've never had them even assess it. No. They're going straight from my cervix every time. Yeah. And, and, and that's very important. I do encourage people to get their pap smears. Please do. Cuz cervical cancer can be prevented.

    However, that is not enough. That, and that is doing us as women and vagina CEOs a disservice because 98% of people that have a penis are gonna orgasm every time. But if you have pain on your clitoris, if you can't even feel sensation to your clitoris, if you feel like your clitoris is getting dry and irritated and you know, all these different, that's impacting your health.

    We have to say this.

    [00:44:22] Sexual health is health

    Janelle: Sexual health is just health. It's just health. We, we put it in a different box. It's health. So I think that we have to [00:44:30] start talking about how the, uh, the, the organ that is similar to the penis is the clitoris and not the vagina and the vulva. We have to talk about the vulva because the clitoris lives in the vulva.

    Yeah. Right. So the more time we spend learning about that, I, I think overall we'll be more educated and people will know at least where it is. There's a lot of us that don't even know where it's, and I'm talking about women and people with vaginas right now. We like to show

    Surabhi: anytime I have shared a post on this is even.

    Where your vagina is and where your like people are learning so much and yeah, like that makes me really sad in many ways because I'm like, oh my gosh, there are full grown adults who don't know their body parts and they're having humans. They're not teaching their kids anything. Yeah. I remember seeing this eight year old girl at a grocery store and she's like, I just found out I have hooha.

    And I'm like, that's not funny. You're eight. My, my two year old already knows what a vulva is. Like, your parents are not teaching you these words. And like, yeah, it's kind of funny to say hoo-ha, vajajay. All, all those [00:45:30] words, but let's also call it what it is. And um, wow. What you just said about your gynecologist, it just reminded me that.

    The world just sees us as reproductive organs.

    Janelle: Absolutely.

    Surabhi: So they only care about our reproduction. They don't, absolutely. I mean, and if that, if they care about anything, it's that they don't really care about our sexual or our satisfaction. Our pleasure. Um, and that's why they're not looking at our clitoris.

    Janelle: Like they never taught to, unfortunately, they were never to not in the curriculum for for medical doctors Yeah. To, to go into clitoral function unless maybe someone is specializing in, in that. But I don't even hear about specialists very often when it comes to the clitoris. So, you know, there's clitorodynia, which is a form of vulvodynia, where your clitoris is hurting.

    There there's just so many things, even if it's not hurting, is it functioning well?

    [00:46:19] PCOS, diabetes and sexual function

    Janelle: Um, one of the things that we don't talk about is the connection between things like PCOS and sexual function. So with PCOS, you're, you're more than likely to have higher levels of [00:46:30] insulin, higher levels of levels of cholesterol in blood sugar.

    So that's gonna impact the amount of blood that can get to your clitoris if your blood vessels have more cholesterol in them. If your insulin levels are higher, meaning sugar is not getting into the cell, every cell of the body needs sugar. Cuz that's the energy source. It's like your car is not gonna move if there's no gas in that car.

    So you have to have gas in the car. For women with PCOS and diabetes and insulin resistance, it's like the fuel is not getting in our cars. And so you have a little fuel in your, in your clitoris. Your clitoris needs the energy to do all the things, help you get to that orgasm, be aroused, feel good. And so if you are having, and even your waist circumference, we're living in an age where there's more body positivity and I love that.

    But there's also just the medical facts of if someone has a larger waist circumference in addition to other things like higher insulin levels, higher blood sugar levels, um, and higher cholesterol levels, you're, you're less likely to orgasm and [00:47:30] you're gonna have less sensitivity with sex. Um, so, so

    Surabhi: again, it's blood flow, right?

    Comes down to the blood and the sh Yeah.

    Janelle: Yes. So it goes back to sexual health is health . So the healthier you are in general, it can, it can help with your sexual function, especially with exercising and everything. Um, so yeah i, I love that you're bringing up the clitoris. We, we have to continue talking about it beyond the super superficial way that we do.

    I mean, we know that the clitoris is there and we're like, focus on the clitoris. Okay. What, what about it? Um, we could even get into what are different ways to stimulate the clitoris? Um, how so? I think it's, so we were talking about how it's sad that as adults, you know, some people don't know where the clitoris.

    [00:48:16] Most people don't know where the clitoris is

    Janelle: But we have to start assuming that people don't know.

    Surabhi: Yeah. Because that's what I realize now.

    Janelle: They just don't. Yeah. There's so many people in our audience where you have these people that do know, then you also have the people that don't.

    Surabhi: So I would say like 90% don't know. That's [00:48:30] what I think based on, based on how many saves I get for post and shares, I get for certain posts that I'm like, this is basic.

    Everybody knows this. Yeah. But then they're like, I showed my teenager this, uh, this is so helpful. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, basics. People need the basics and Yeah. Yeah.

    [00:48:47] The importance of carbohydrates and fibre for vaginal health

    Surabhi: You know, it's, um, what you just said about blood flow and, you know, getting the sugars, and this is why when people are told to just go on a diet, don't eat any carbs.

    Your body needs carbs and oh my gosh. And I, I know somebody who, who's told this during pregnancy, oh, you should stop eating carbs because you know how some people test positive for gestational diabetes and that test alone, there's, who knows how accurate it is. Yeah. Yeah. Not very accurate, but you cannot starve your body of carbs or food and expect your vagina to work.

    Janelle: Yes, absolutely. I love to say this to people. There's only three major nutrients, carbs, protein, and fats. If you take away one, you don't got much nutrients left. [00:49:30] So carbohydrates, believe it or not, is the most nutrient dense food group. Hmm. There are more nutrients in carbohydrates than there are in protein sources and fat sources.

    Carbohydrates are fruits and vegetables. Okay. And fruits and vegetables are jam-packed with some of the most strongest disease fighting molecules, antioxidants. , all the vitamins and minerals. So many of us are deficient in a lot of vitamins. And min vitamin d I mean iron, magnesium. Let's talk about that because that's contributing to some of the sexual dysfunction.

    The, the vagina has nutrient needs, the clitoris has nutrient needs through the blood, and it's important that we talk about not just eating carbs, but let's, let's go on a limb here. Surabhi and, and tell the folks that 60 to 60% of your diet should be carved . Yes. If you look at the [00:50:30] nutrient plate, you're not gonna be, ha, you shouldn't be having 75% protein.

    I'm sorry that you, you can't even process more than about 25 grams of protein in one sitting. So you are gonna eat all the protein you want, but it's not even really helping you if you go beyond a certain, uh, a certain point and then fat, you, you can't overdo it on fat either. But you need, so you need the carbohydrates.

    This is a big thing that your clitoris in your vagina is doing to create your sex drive, your arousal, your sex, your satisfaction, your orgasm. That takes energy. , I need, that takes energy.

    Surabhi: You know what I would say too? It's like, so I'm vegetarian. I've been one all my life and like a lot of, uh, Indians, a lot of South Asians are vegetarian, plant-based.

    We eat a lot of veggies and fruits and that's just part of our diet. You come to North America, you know, I'm in Canada, it's cold. I mean, similar to where you live, it's cold. Half the year you don't get the same produce. And so we start eating differently. We start eating maybe [00:51:30] less fruits and veggies and more.

    We still eating carbs, but maybe more grains and not as much of that nutrient dense fruits and veggies that impacts our health More, more processed grains too. Mm-hmm. . And you know, of course there's lots of foods that are processed that are great for us, but we also need those fruits and veggies. Yeah, and I love that you share those recipes.

    I have your, uh, your, uh, food, your.

    Janelle: Do you?

    Surabhi: Yeah, I have Vagina Food, E Guide. I got that and I was like, I'm gonna incorporate more of these nutrients. And as I'm flipping through that, I'm like, oh, like okra. Like these are things I grew up with that yes, you need to go back to eating those types of cultural foods because they're rich in nutrients and these types of problems.

    They exist worldwide, but we need to, um, d not, not demonize carbs. Like carbs are essential. Oh,

    Janelle: absolutely. And the good thing about, I was also raised vegetarian for a good part of my life. Nice. I was raised vegetarian. Yeah. For, so for my religion, Seven Day Adventist, we, we have this thing where we believe in health wholeheartedly.

    And [00:52:30] for us it's, it's healthier to get your protein from plants. Yes. And, and not indulgent meat and everything. And, and I've, I've, I've changed. I eat meat now. I, I'm trying to get back to my roots. But the good thing about when you get protein from a plant is that you're also getting, um, fiber. Yeah. Every plant protein source come, there's no plant protein source that doesn't have fiber, but when you get your, your protein from meat, which is not bad.

    Again, I eat meat. It doesn't have any fiber at all. So one of the things that helps us with our hormones is our bowel regularity and our liver and our gut. And so if you're eating more of the foods that have more of those major nutrients, remember carbs, protein, fat, then it's helping with your digestion.

    Surabhi: And so your pelvic health too.

    Janelle: I'm glad that you got my vagina food e-guide though. I actually need to read through it more. I like to use it for grocery shopping. Cause there's, I

    Surabhi: mean there's so many. Yeah. There's like be, there were so many good foods that I was like, oh yeah, we [00:53:30] gotta eat this more. And you know, it's, there's one thing that I find is really, really important with, with nutrition, especially in, you know, a lot of people don't eat enough and then we reach for things like coffee, Starbucks.

    I, I know, I know. I've done that. You're tired, you're reaching for sugar. Right. But it's the sugar from the sources that don't also have a lot of nutrients. And that's fine once in a while. But I know, I know for a fact mothers skip breakfast. They're drinking one smoothie all day, and then they're eating dinner and then late night comes and they're snacking, snacking, snacking.

    And I did that myself. Yeah. And it's not healthy, even if you don't gain the weight. It's not about the weight, it's about what is happening in your body. Absolutely. And your blood flow. You know, your, I started to notice like if my li, if my libido is going down, I look at that. I look at that as a health warning.

    We ignore that. We think it's not a big deal, but I'm like, oh, why is this happening? It is a warning. It.

    Janelle: It's like they do in the Caribbean. Yeah,

    yeah.[00:54:30]

    Surabhi: But yeah, it's a warning sign and we, we can't ignore it. Right. And it's just like, you know, erectile dysfunction is in, in, you know, folks with penises, it's a warning sign. Yeah. And so it's not just about the sex, it's about like blood flow, cardiovascular, so much. Yeah. What does this,

    Janelle: why is this happening?

    Surabhi: Uh, and even if it's as simple as, you know, you and your partner have some issues to work out of, that's important to actually reflect on and, and do.

    Yeah. And not just ignore. Oh yeah. I don't have a libido, but like I'll just fake it and, you know, push my, push myself for the satisfaction of my partner. You know?

    [00:55:01] Low libido

    Janelle: I am so excited you talked about libido. This is by far the number one topic that goes wild whenever I post on it, and most of my audience is between 25 to about 30.

    That's my target range. Yeah. People are struggling with their little as as sex positive and as sex out. You know, sex is everywhere in this day and age, it's everywhere. Everyone's posting about it. But I think if we get real, a lot of us don't [00:55:30] want it. And the, and not that we don't want to want it, but our body is not giving us those signals.

    It's not, maybe it's not getting enough nutrients. Maybe we're too stressed. They love

    Surabhi: exercise,

    Janelle: love, anxiety, listen

    Surabhi: exercise. For me it's, the exercise makes a huge deal because I used to be, I used to run, I used to cross-country ski race, so like a lot of cardiovascular endurance exercise, which means a lot of blood flow.

    Heart health is great. And then I became a mom and I, I, I like can't blame it on being a mom li literally I got lazy. I stopped doing that kind of stuff.

    Janelle: It's a contributing factor.

    Surabhi: Yeah, it's a contributing factor. And then I became a mom and you know, all that, less time on our hands. So less cardiovascular fitness.

    Yeah. Also impacts your libido. And so when I go for a bike ride or run, , I feel, I feel different energy. You know, it's like, yeah, it's an immediate, you know, change and it's just your body is like, oh, there's more blood flow in places. This is a good thing. Yeah, there's more normal function and I, I'm glad you mentioned PCOS too, because that's something that so many people deal with, [00:56:30] whether it's diagnosed officially or not.

    [00:56:32] Get your bloodwork checked for iron, Vit D, magnesium

    Surabhi: People are dealing with that cluster of symptoms and it's not as simple as just do pelvic floor physio. It's also get your nutrients checked, get your blood tests. Blood work done. Um, I think it's mandatory that you should have a postpartum blood check, blood, a blood work appointment. Mm. Check your iron, check your vitamin D mine were dangerously low for both of them and they care about checking that during pregnancy. But as soon as you have the baby, they just leave you. So you have to advocate for yourself and have these things checked routinely to, and also, uh, check in with your body. How do you feel? Yes. Um, cuz we blame everything on, oh, I have poor libido, but maybe you're lacking simple nutrients that could make a big difference.

    Mm.

    Janelle: Like magnesium, vitamin D. Vitamin D is literally a hormone. Yeah. . It's, uh, it's, it's very interesting. I mean, men that have, uh, low, low testosterone, men that have, uh, low libido, men that have erectile dysfunction, many of them have vitamin D deficiencies. Interesting. And for women and people with, uh, [00:57:30] uterus, vitamin D is highly connected to one's fertility, fibroids.

    Women that have fibroids, they typically have lowered levels of vitamin D. I mean, this is really important, um, for our hormone regulation. Um, and so, and mood, definitely look into getting foods every day that have those vitamins. I know we wanna get the multivitamin and nothing wrong with that, but try to get foods that have the vitamins because you're gonna better absorb it cuz it comes with the necessary, uh, nutrients that help you to actually digest it.

    Yeah. It's like, for example, iron, the whole package, not even iron, can't even be absorbed without vitamin C. . Yeah. So a lot of the foods that are rich in iron that are plant-based foods have the vitamin C there. Yeah. So, um, that's one good thing about nature is that, you know, nature or I believe in God, so God created these foods, you know, strategically for us or whatever you believe na nature is, is the [00:58:30] best medicine.

    Surabhi: Nature is. And you know, it's, as much as we try to scientifically create things that are better than nature, it's not going to be as good as just nature is. Right?

    [00:58:42] Constipation and the low bar for health in North America

    Surabhi: And, um, I also, going back to plant-based stuff, and, I'm biased because I grew up in a mostly plant-based foods. That's a lie. I grew up eating eggs once in a while and, and dairy and stuff. But right now I'm mostly plant-based. But in North America, the standards for constipation are so low. So you could be pooping every three days and still not be technically constipated.

    And I'm like, like if you tell somebody in Asia or even, you know, across the continent of Africa, if you told them that, they'd be like, excuse me, you're eating three times a day. Why are you pooping once a week? Why are you pooping twice a week? Exactly. Three times a week. Like, I, I actually

    Janelle: have, I don't think they can meet the demand of people that will be coming in for help.

    So that , they, they create this, this false sense of reality that, yeah, you can't eat two, three times a day as long as you poop once. [00:59:30] And they say nothing else about your poop health. Just the amount. Just the amount that alone is

    Surabhi: not, not, doesn't matter if you're restraining, you got pellets. Yeah. And like this is the other part of it.

    Janelle: Rabbit pellets every time you poop. Or

    Surabhi: like Yeah. You know, this is, the other part of it is like, normal is just what is common. So the normal American standard American diet is not the best for our bodies, which means those same people are not pooping as frequently, but that is normal because it is what's common.

    But if we look globally and we look at cultures that like, you know, have less hemorrhoids, have less straining, have less constipation, they're pooping like average one to two times a day, that's their average. They're eating all the fiber. And, you know, it's not an issue. I, I've never had a problem getting fiber.

    Like I, I can't even imagine how I wouldn't get it because, . Every food that I eat essentially has it. Oh yeah, of course. You know, of course there's days that I'm just purely

    Janelle: eating and there are those unhealthy [01:00:30] vegetarians where they eat Oreos and potato chips. But you're different. Well,

    Surabhi: I eat those too, but it's, it's, it's, and right.

    It's not like I'm only, I'm substituting wine for the other. Right, right. And I to let me tell you, I can eat more vegetables any day. Like we can, all I think do, do, to eat more veggies in our diet, especially in the winter months where it's so easy to throw in a soup or, you know, we're not eating as many salads and stuff, and I don't, I don't like cold salads anyways.

    [01:00:54] Stop aiming for "normal" and aim to feel good in your body

    Surabhi: But I think there's a point where we get that we have to stop looking at trying to be normal and understand that we just wanna feel good in our bodies. Don't try to be normal like the other Americans who are unhealthy and pooping twice a week, three times a week. Yeah.

    Janelle: Let, let's just be healthy. Let's,

    Surabhi: let's just be healthy.

    Healthy, healthy. Yeah. Awkward. And if your doctor tells you, oh, this is normal. But if you still feel poorly in your body, , like dig around, ask, advocate for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that same with pain with sex or you know, oh, people will say, oh, you're only a couple months postpartum. What do you expect?

    But there's so much you can do for, to prepare yourself [01:01:30] to so much you can do to actually resolve these issues instead of just waiting for time to pass. And, uh, it ending up being a psychological issue too. Then, you know, the longer that goes, these issues goes, the more in your head you get about it because it's Yeah.

    Your, your brain and your body are wired together. Totally. Totally.

    [01:01:48] Sexual dysfunction and relationships

    Surabhi: Um, can you talk about sexual health dysfunction and how it work with their partners? Because you, you, you told me yourself, somebody stopped dating because they're stressed about having to constantly go to their partners and have these conversations.

    Yeah, yeah. Uh, in your experience, have you seen it go over well? Where the partner is understanding or Yeah. Where they maybe. You know, it's, it's just a positive experience.

    Janelle: Yeah. I've seen both where I would say mostly I see actually the supportive partner, I think, not that there's not a lot of people that are unsupportive, but usually by the time someone's seeking help, they're in a relationship and the relationship is on, not on the rocks, [01:02:30] but at risk of not having that sexual, that sexual connection.

    So then you're more likely to seek help when it's not just impacting you, but also impacting someone, someone else else. Yeah. So that, so that partner is there. They're, it's, it's not that they're not being impacted, but they're trying to be supportive through that struggle. But then I've also talked to people with vaginismus where things can't get in the vagina, tampon finger or penis or, it's, it's situational where you can get a tampon in, but the, the penis won't go no matter how hard you try, vaginismus. I've talked to people where, you know, their, their partner left where they, they were trying and trying, and for that person, they couldn't deal with that. Yeah. So they left, or the, the person who has vaginismus has completely given up on dating and it's been years like, they're like, I am just not doing this anymore.

    Because that is mentally taxing. I mean, our vagina is, is is part of our identity in a sense. This is the place where we have babies. [01:03:30] This is a place where we come from, we bleed from it every month. We assume that anything's gonna be able to go in and out without issue because that should be the case.

    And so when that's not happening, there's a lot of questioning, doubt, insecurity, depression. All the things. And so, um, I, I've seen it go both ways. There's even a study though, that says the partners of women that have vaginismus and, and chronic sexual dysfunction, they also have higher levels of sexual dysfunction.

    Hmm. So by struggling through, you know, this experience of we can't have penetrative sex, the partner can then also develop things like premature ejaculation, right. Uh, erectile dysfunction or delayed ejaculation. You know, it's, we're gonna impact, we're gonna impact the people closest to us. Um, and so, yeah, that we, we have to talk about that.

    [01:04:24] Your vagina is a mental health organ

    Janelle: It, it's very important, especially for our, our mental health. I, I like to say that your vagina [01:04:30] is a mental health organ. Clitoris, especially .

    Surabhi: If it's not working for you, there's something wrong. And, you know, there's some, there's, but

    Janelle: the substance, serotonin too. Serotonin, yeah. Actually helps with, um, vaginal function.

    So when you look at vaginal fluid, there's a lot of serotonin in vaginal fluid. So our, the, the level of our happiness, our mental health actually helps with things like lubrication, contraction, arousal, all of that stuff that we think is only separated for our brain and our happiness can impact our, our vaginal, sexual, pelvic floor function.

    [01:05:07] The importance of mental health support

    Surabhi: And a lot of the times if people are dealing with persistent pelvic floor issues, if you're not also dealing with your mental health or seeking support for that, like that's I think a huge step that's, uh, actually missing in the conversations around pelvic health is we need also mental health support.

    Because if you're o you know, trauma abuse, yes, there's a lot, you know, things that you haven't even [01:05:30] processed in your life that could be affecting your pelvic health that's unrelated to your partner, you know, and it's maybe a previous partner or something, or some other experience. And, and

    Janelle: I think that's why so many people use the dilators for a gajillion years and they're not getting better.

    It's like, I'm, I'm on the largest dilator, but I just can't. Well, this is a psychosexual condition, so I don't care how much Botox you use, all the trigger points you can get, the wands and the vibrating wand, the warming wand, all of that. But if you are not spending enough time, and if you cannot get to a professional for your mental health, how can you better support your mental health?

    Can you talk to your family members about it? Can you start journaling? Can you journal like simple stuff? Yeah. Can you get a mindfulness app? Can you know, what can you do to better help yourself? Because this is not just a vagina problem. No, it's, it's fueled by what's happening in the mind. Yeah.

    Surabhi: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's uh, and I feel like people give up, they go to their one physio appointment and they're like, oh, didn't heal my vaginismus but it's like, or like, you know, [01:06:30] but it's when we approach it from a whole human perspective, whole human, you know. Who's experiencing not just a physical symptom, but also probably mental symptoms of that physical pain and, uh, dysfunction, then we can actually take a step forward in the right direction.

    So, some final thoughts here before we kind of wrap up today. Wanna know about you and what you are listening to, reading. What's something that you listened to, podcast or a book that's been life-changing for you?

    Janelle: Woo. I'm glad you brought up this question. You know, right now I'm actually, I didn't even know you had a podcast. Let me start there. ,

    Surabhi: I didn't even, that's my fault then. I haven't done a good job marketing it.

    Janelle: Then I have a couple of friends that have a podcast on pelvic floor health but I'm, I'm actually in the midst of trying to find some more podcasts that I enjoy, um, surrounding pelvic health and vaginal health.

    [01:07:23] Looking at your work as a divine calling

    Janelle: But a, a book that has really been life changing for me was this book called [01:07:30] Every Good Endeavor by Timothy Keller, and he talks about how to connect your work to God's work. And that helped me. I I read that so long ago, and it, it brought a new insight and perspective that I took to my work. And when you take your work as a divine thing, I think you bring a little bit more passion and purpose to your work, and people can feel that.

    And that, that's really helped me because as someone who grew up Christian, you know, there's an, there's a big emphasis on serving God and doing good things for other people. Um, but when you learn that your work, I mean, you're spending hours, whatever your job is, you're spending hours doing it. So for me, learning how I can do this to better serve humanity and, and better serve God was, uh, a book that that really changed my life.

    And I, I will even go back and read it again. Um, and then another book called Hood. Feminism, I forget the [01:08:30] author, Nikki, I forget her last name, but it's called Hood Feminism. I've heard that book.

    [01:08:33] Hood feminism

    Janelle: Yeah. It's so, so good because typically we, we hear people screaming feminism all the time, but typically when we're talking about feminism, it's just really a transfer of power from, from white, rich men to white rich women.

    Women, yeah. Most of the, the, the fem, you know, it's, but are we supporting even the people that are not quote unquote respectable? What are we doing for the women who are prostitutes? What are we doing for the women that, that are on welfare? What are we doing for gay women? What are we doing for Black and Brown women?

    Usually feminism doesn't really take on, um, the emphasis to support those communities and those demographics. So hood feminism, I love it because it's like, yes, let's be feminists, but let's be feminists for every woman. Yeah. Because that's what feminism should be. That's what it should be about elevating one small group of people or a type of [01:09:30] person, even if it's not just type of person.

    Yeah. How, how do we support everyone, um, as we fight for, for human rights and women's rights. Yeah. Um, so that, that was another great book that I love.

    Surabhi: I love that. I'm gonna get that book because, uh, it sounds awesome and feminism is, you're right.

    It's truly, that's why I never really related to the feminist movement because I'm like, it's not for me. These, these, these things are not serving people like me. They're serving usually privileged white women, you know, not the poor white women either, they're usually serving their privileged white women.

    Janelle: Right. That's what it's about.

    Surabhi: Yeah. It's, um, it's usually, yeah, we need to make sure that our spaces are actually welcoming and including people who are Yeah, yeah. Needing the help the most. And I think that you do do the Lord's work, if I may say so myself. You know, I grew up at, uh, being in a Hindu family, and there is a lot of, you know, even in the yoga culture, yoga's Indian, right?

    Like we grew up with yoga in our family and in our, in our households. And it's not about asanas and [01:10:30] poses, it's about servitude as well, and speaking up, using your voice for things that matter. And I feel like in that way, you embody this, I embody this. And people who are truly passionate about the work that they're doing, it comes from a place of serving others.

    Yeah. And I think you can definitely see that in your, your work and your page, and. Just the, the love you put in, the love you put into it all. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

    Tell me about your self-care, because I know you've been busy. I know you've been busy the past. Yeah.

    Janelle: You know what, I, I went through your questions before this podcast, and I, and I saw that question.

    I was like, oh, shoot. So the question of what do I do for self-care? Three things. Three, like was oooh Give me a break Surabhi

    Surabhi: daily, I could, I could say five things, but three, let's keep it basic.

    Janelle: I, I can grow. This is an area I can grow. Uh, I love that you said earlier in the podcast that you grew up in a home where you really honored your parents and the, the role of the parents that was the center of the house and not the kids.[01:11:30]

    Unfortunately, I never really saw my mom taking time for herself, like in a self-care way. It was always her trying to make ends meet, her trying to make sure that we're involved in gajillion things. Um, her trying to help the church, I never, I never saw my mom like just sit down and read a book. I never saw that.

    Yeah. So for me, it's really, I, I don't wanna blame my mom, it's just something that I have to grow the culture, grow in. Yeah. Yeah. I have to grow in that every day though, what I do try and do is, um, move my body stretch on my yoga mat or on the bed. Um, I'm naturally just someone who holds more tension, not necessarily in my pelvic floor, but hamstrings, tight calves, tight.

    Naturally. I'm from a kid. I've never been that flexible. Um, so that's something that I have to do a little bit more now because obviously I'm getting older. And so mobility in the mornings, prayer, um, I wanna make sure that I'm, I'm coming to my audience with a good heart, not selfishness or judgmentalism.[01:12:30]

    Um, really going for what would be best for the patient. And even when it comes to trying to grow your business from a financial standpoint, you know, I, I don't want just any money. I, I want to make money in ways that are actually serving my people and not just trying to take everyone's money. The knowing, trying to get the best deal and, yeah.

    Yeah, yeah. I, I don't even know how to treat that, but let take my money. No, I wanna make sure that I'm coming at it from the right place. And for me, as someone who grew up believing in God and still does, uh, prayer is, is a part of that. Um, and then I would say, this sounds simple, but laughing. I mean, laugh every day.

    I, I don't, that's one thing about me. I don't take myself that seriously. and, and I can, if you put me on a stage and you know, cause I love to speak motivational speaking, so I'm having more serious side with that stuff or preaching, but generally I'm pretty laid back and you're gonna find me laughing about something.

    And so I think for me, that really helps for me to not be tense and anxious and all that. [01:13:30] Although I am developing a little bit more anxiety, the more time I spend on social media. Lemme just put that out there. It's true. The more time you spend on social media, the more anxious you'll feel. It's very stimulating.

    You're constantly stimulating. There's no time meaning for that. Yeah. There's I and

    Surabhi: I think that it's, it's when we look at how it's designed, , it's actually designed for that. So it's not, it's actually normal that you feel anxious on social media. It's, it would be weird if you didn't. Right. And so really taking that time to, especially, this is a thing for you.

    I know you switched to virtual care fully recently. That's something that I've recognized is get outside every day because it's so easy when you're virtual to just be at home all the time, be a human being. But you gotta get outside every day. And when I don't do this, my mental health does start to go down.

    I get anxious. I get like literally like a hamster stuck in, you know? And I see this in my kids, cuz if I don't take them outside every day to play, run around. They are disasters by the end of the day. And I'm like, wait a second, I'm just a grownup kid. Like I, I also need that energy for myself, so. Exactly.

    Yeah. Uh, I love that you mentioned that. And [01:14:30] self-care. I, I don't want, I grew up with a family that my mom did everything as well, so they were still the center in terms of we have to respect them and we needed to respect them and value them. But my mom cooked, cleaned, worked full-time, got her masters when I was a kid.

    She did it all and I saw that and I was like, that's that life is not for me. That life is not for me. My mom is still happy. She loves serving others, but I also know that she lost out on a lot of her own joys and, you know, I'm trying to get her back to painting and things that she loves now.

    She's doing my fitness membership with me and it makes me so happy because I feel like it's never too late to start taking care of yourself. Um, absolutely. You know, we're in our thirties. We're lucky that we're figuring this out now. A lot of women don't figure it out till their sixties, seventies, you know?

    Very true, very true. Um, alright, Janelle, if the, what's the something, what's something you're super passionate about recently? I know you're passionate about a lot of things.

    Janelle: Um, I'm actually passionate about travel. [01:15:30] I really love traveling. Um, I didn't even start posting on Instagram about vaginas until I couldn't post about traveling because of the pandemic.

    My, my thing. I didn't care to share this vaginal pelvic floor thing with everyone. I was just like, that's my career. I do it in private. I, I'll see you one-on-one and that's it. But before I start, before it was vagina rehab doctor, my other pages, journeys in jet lag. and, um, what I was trying to do was teach people that look like you and me, and anyone really that traveling is not just for wealthy people and people who are retired.

    You can be a broke college student and go to Paris. And so I, I was teaching this, this class how to journey the world on a dime and Okay. Um, now I obviously, I can't do both as much, so I'm more focused on this now. But traveling is really a, a passion for me. I've been to like almost 25 countries and I wanna, I wanna teach women how to, especially single women.

    how to use travel as a way [01:16:30] to nourish more romance and adventure in their lives. Mm-hmm. , um, a lot of single women are waiting for a man to come or anyone to come. And you don't have to be a woman, it's just this pressure or No, I, I wanna wait until I'm married before I go to Greece, cuz it's a romantic destination.

    Okay. Well do you have a date? Like, because if you just keep waiting, I mean, it's, it's just a disservice. So that's one of the things I'm really passionate about. I would love to, to blend pelvic floor health and travel like a retreat or something.

    Surabhi: Listen, that's what I'm visualizing for you. Is retreat for Thank you for all the single folks who Yes.

    And like reigniting their passion and they're romancing themselves. You can call it romance yourself. Like, I'm, I'm just, yeah, absolutely. I think that will be fantastic. Is I wish I did more of that when I was single. I was, I was, you know, I was never in a long-term relationship till I met my husband and dated here and there, but it was like I was looking for the right one.

    And so much of our li life is oriented around the right one and it's like, yeah. Hello. You're ignoring yourself the entire time. And,

    Janelle: [01:17:30] um, oh yeah. I, I, I really, I mean, I can talk about that all day.

    Surabhi: Um, where do you wanna travel? Where? Huh? Where do you wanna travel to next?

    Janelle: Oh, Kenya. Kenya. That's my number one.

    Uh, this is the, I wear this bracelet every day. I've worn, worn it for about four years. Um, that's where I really wanna go to. And solo travel. I'm I really hard. I believe, I believe in every type of travel. I love my family and I go on family trips. I've been on a trip with my boyfriend, friends, of course girlfriends, yes.

    But I think that people who are interested in curious and solo travel should try it. It's great. And it doesn't have to be far. You can. To another city for a weekend and see how, how you like it, or even a staycation. I've done the three day staycation here in Chicago. Um, so I think those things just really help you to connect with yourself and, you know, show yourself some adventure.

    You don't have to wait to do it with someone else.

    Surabhi: Listen, you're, you're inspiring me. I'm like, okay, where can I book my solo trip? ? I just have always, never, now I'm like, never alone. [01:18:30] That's a lie. I'm, I'm home alone right now, but like, always surrounded by other people, kids noise, you know, just chaos in some ways and just to take time for myself to go spend some time and like, let myself actually breathe and think you're inspiring me.

    I wanna do a solo trip.

    Janelle: Aw, well I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually come to see you, so that's gonna be my Let's do it trip. Let's, let's, I'm, I've been being to come to Canada and I have friends there. You're there. Some of my audience is there, so I can't wait.

    Surabhi: Let's do it. I'm excited for you to come here. Yes. Uh, come in this summer when it's like not freezing and.

    Janelle: Will do, will do.

    [01:19:07] Janelle's hope for Christians to resemble Christ

    Surabhi: If you could change one thing about the world, what would you change?

    Janelle: If I could change one thing about the world, it would be the way the church interacts with the world. I am someone who believes in God, but there are a lot of people who don't like church. People who have been harmed by church, people, they felt judged, um, different communities, whether it's homosexual [01:19:30] community or whatever community it may be, they haven't felt love from the church.

    And as someone who does believe in God and knows God to be love, I feel that it's just really sad that there's not a better, um, picture of what church is like or what God is like, because a lot of us don't have God in our hearts. Um, so I think for me, I, I would love for church people to be more loving, to be more compassionate, and even if they don't share the same beliefs as someone else, to still treat that person with the utmost respect, uh, regardless of if they share the exact same perspective or morals.

    Um, and so if I could change something about the world, I think it would be that because, uh, for me, ultimately, you know, it's our relationship with God that that really matters. Um, because as a believer in the second coming, Jesus is coming back one day. So the whole goal is to help people to know who Jesus is.

    And [01:20:30] so if, if you, if you,

    Surabhi: it's so interesting you say that because I see a lot of people like the way, I think the problem with the church is so f for so long it's gone away from like the spirituality and it's more like control, power, rules. Mm-hmm. obedience. And it's like, it's actually not about that when you Yeah.

    Like the purpose to bring people together. It's not for that. Right. And it's right. Uh, unfortunately it's become that way for so, so, you know, in the treatment of the Indigenous populations, like there's so many things that have happened. Right. And I think that what you just said, if you could change that about the world, I think so many wrongs would be righted just in that.

    Janelle: Absolutely. If, if, if Christians could actually like, act like Christ, that , that would be, that would be great. Cause if you, if you look at the Bible, Christ wasn't going around forcing people to go to church. He wasn't going around, Hey, go change your clothes. He wasn't, he was just walking around and people would ask him questions and he would start talking to them with love.

    And he would go around [01:21:30] healing people of their affirmaries and sickness. Christianity. The way we, the way we live it is a lot different than the way it, the way Christ did his ministry. So if I could change one thing, it would be that Christians would, would actually like resemble Christ

    to actually, yeah. It's performative Christianity.

    That's what it is right there. Mm. People are performing. And, um, I, I think we see that lesson Hinduism here in India. I'm sure you see a lot of that performative, oh, I'm a Hindu, I can't do this. But you're like, nowhere does it say in Hinduism that you should hate somebody who's not like you. No where.

    Exactly. It's, it's, you know, and that's that. Anyways, yeah. There's so much that's misconstrued for the own person's benefit. And I think changing that and going back to the roots of serving and whether you believe it in God or not, just coming from a place of care for humanity is just a

    good person.

    Surabhi: Be a good person.

    Janelle: Yeah. When I, when I went to India, there was such an emphasis on, on service. I went with my dad cause I [01:22:30] couldn't find anybody else to go with me. Um, we felt like we were like Michelle Obama and Barack Obama, the way they treated us, the people at the hotel, even our taxi driver. It was like something about, and, and we did interact with more Hindus.

    So I don't know if there's a difference, but there's just a, a big emphasis I think, on treating others with respect. I, I don't know what it is, right? If they just treat tourists like that or what , but I think it, it was great and I can't wait to go back.

    Surabhi: I, I can't wait to go back to I, last one in 2016. I think a big part of it is there's so many people, it's so populated.

    You just cannot be a jerk to like, to your, to your neighbor. You are in too close to space to treat other people like garbage because you, it's just so community-based. Here, it's very individualistic. Mm-hmm. , I'm me me me up, up top. Yeah. There it's community. And yes, there's a lot of civil violence and this and that, like, you know, and also leftover from the colonialism and the British era [01:23:30] and separating the religions.

    Cuz now before that the religions, all the religions, Hinduism, you know, Islam, they were all living kind of coexisting and they actually still do for the most part. Mm-hmm. .

    But I find that the service level of service there, that is service. You don't get service in North America. You go to a store, the person's barely looking up, they're on their phones and you're like, I'm trying to spend money in your store.

    Can you please give me some attention? Yeah, yeah. Um, and it's, it's just wild. I remember this one cab driver, uh, we had, had hired drive us from, um, Udaipur, which is in Rajasthan, a State in, in India, yeah. To, I don't know, it was an 11 hour drive in one day. Mm-hmm. . We wanted to stop at two different tourist sites and see it.

    He literally was by us. He was at our beck and call. Taught me so many things about the culture. Made sure I got the Indian discount even though I'm a foreigner now. But I was like, I'm still Indian. I was born and raised there and like just little things, really cared. And it was, I [01:24:30] don't know, a hundred bucks, like nothing.

    It was nothing for like,

    Janelle: please take me, please take me when you go. I will,

    I I wanna the next, if I know what if I go with the native? Oh my gosh,

    that would be, oh, it's gonna be different experience. Cuz you then you get to real eat the real good food and the like, and like the things people

    wait. Cause I'll be vegetarian with you for, for a bit.

    That would be good.

    Surabhi: Um, it's just, and the food is so good and fresh. Oh my gosh. I, I, I've been wanting to go, uh, we haven't been since 2016, like I said. And I wanna take my kids cuz they've never been there. Yeah, absolutely.

    Um, Janelle, what would you say is your biggest.

    Janelle: Speaking, um, talking when I was a kid, like I wasn't even 10 yet and I preached at church and you know, after that I, I spoke a lot in my community.

    Um, again, I think I've talked about how, how I also preach on the side. So I preach in like Puerto Rico, I preached in California. Amazing. Um, so that's, I, I think that's just one of my [01:25:30] gifts is just running my mouth, just talking . And, uh, I, I like to talk, I like to talk about health, travel, god, community, uh, racial justice, all, all of that.

    So I, I definitely think that's my biggest, my biggest, um, strength. And I don't know why I don't have a podcast yet. ,

    Surabhi: you know, that's what I'm wondering. I also love talking and I think that when you have a gift of gab , you have a gift of talking.

    You need to just talk more, do more. , you can be on other people's podcasts if you don't wanna run your own. And I think, yeah. Um, but anyone who has heard you speak, whether it's on your page, through this podcast, through any medium, just can see and feel the, um, authenticity, your true, genuine nature of care and, um, like you're just so authentic. Really? You're not trying to be anyone else.

    Janelle: You gotta make a black girl blush. And that's hard. . That's hard. .

    Surabhi: [01:26:30] No, but you know, I have huge respect for you as do like so many people in the space. I love that you started the melanated women of color, pelvic floor, physical therapy directory, bringing folks together that usually are not represented.

    Uh, I already had someone reach out on my post, ask me if I knew a pelvic PT in Ottawa, and I'm like, yeah, someone in this directory lives in Ottawa. Here you go. Yeah. And it is working to get more people who maybe wouldn't reach out for support to actually say, yeah, I need, I need help. So, okay. Yeah, you are.

    Um, I love that , you are changing the world just by existing, and I hope that you also learned. Focus on self-care now because, uh, one, one thing that I've learned is that serving others also means I'm also an other, I'm also a person. So not forget that I also need to serve myself.

    Janelle: You're dropping gems, so that girl, put that on the t-shirt, please.

    [01:27:23] Women of Color Pelvic Floor Physical Therapist directory

    Janelle: Come on. I love that. Uh, a quick plug for the directory. Um, if someone's looking for a pelvic physical therapist [01:27:30] in the United States, Caribbean, or Canada, you can find it. Vaginarehabdoctor.com. It is for minority pelvic physical therapist. So you're gonna find, you know, Indians, you know, you're gonna find Latinas, black women, Caribbean women.

    Um, so I hope that that can help anyone who may be looking for a physical therapist, a pelvic physical therapist,

    Surabhi: and we treat everybody. We are just, you know, also creating this space because most conferences, most directories, we just see white and usually females and, um, The global majority is usually not represented in, you know, especially in the North American spaces.

    And I think it's absolutely, we bring a, we bring so much, we bring a different lens because we have different experiences. So I really think that, um, that the directory,

    Janelle: there's so many other directories, like, cuz I've had some people to reach out to me that wanna be a part of the directory. Um, but, you know, are not a minority woman.

    So there are other directories. There's the pe, there's pelvic guru, there's a, there's the, um, [01:28:30] the Women's Health Association.

    [01:28:33] Importance of avoiding cultural appropriation

    Surabhi: I mean, I have a, I have a brief thing about the word guru, right? So guru means it's like the equivalent of like priest, but these words are co-opted. Like Sanskrit words are co-opted and used in North America as like, oh, this guy thinks he's a guru.

    But it's like, literally we would, why, why not just say this guy thinks he's a priest, but no, they're literally taking Indian words and Sanskrit words and just co-opting it and I'm like, guru is like high. It's like sensei, right? Like it's for a someone you really respect who's a teacher and like literally everybody would be calling themselves guru these days and it pisses me off.

    Janelle: Know in your mind, you're like, every

    Surabhi: time I heard that word, I'm, is there anyone Indian who works here? No. Change your name. Make it something that's not just co-opting other people's cultures and words. Seriously? Um, I [01:29:30] said what I. I what it said, .

    Janelle: I love you, girl. You, you're so real. I mean it, but it's educational.

    I love that you're opening us up to the cultural background of the world and just the, the realistic nature of kind of where that comes from.

    Surabhi: So, because language matters, and I think for you being traveling, you're probably more cognizant of these things too. But a lot of people don't leave their North American bubble.

    They travel just within the US and just within, oh, I like, my husband literally had never left Canada before I met him. I was, I was like, I've lived in two other countries, like, excuse me. And so a lot of these folks, especially white folks, they, or if they're traveling, they're traveling to other white countries, they go to Australia and New Zealand, you know, Paris.

    And it's, you've gotta explore different cultures. You have to open your mind, open your hearts, and actually see the world because then you learn how much is co-opted. Even words like mantra, right, or mantra, it's, it's mantra. And not everything is a mantra. Not everything. Not everyone can be a guru. Like, stop, we need to be intentional about the [01:30:30] language that we're using so that we're not erasing the cultures that

    actually,

    Janelle: ooh, have I see why they call you. The Passionate Physio girl. The passion that just rose up. Don't mess with Surabhi, y'all. If you listening right now, you better check the word first before you post it.

    Surabhi: Well, and you know what, it's because I also, people don't understand it's because they're not being intentional. And so if you learn something new, don't be defensive about it. Just be like, oh, I didn't know that. Thank you for educating. Like, you know, and just, it's not that. Because people just don't know, like a lot of people don't know where yoga originated and they think thin white women originated it.

    Yeah. And you're like, no. And so when they go to a yoga class, they think that that is true yoga when asanas or poses is like one of eight, like one small branch of yoga. And so there's so many cultural things that are erased or stolen or co-opted. And for me,

    Janelle: the culture of the culture of India that's getting capitalized on right now by the young community is ridiculous.

    Surabhi: Ridiculous.

    Janelle: I mean, [01:31:30] sometimes even as pe, physical therapists, a lot of our stuff is yoga. It is.

    Surabhi: But the whole medi meditation, mindfulness. And I think, yeah. And even just recognizing where it came from, like even like I shared, I, I share, I drink turmeric milk every day. Right. It's,

    Janelle: I love turmeric. That's like one of my favorite spices.

    Surabhi: Exactly. And it's called haldi in Hindi, in, in the Hindi language. And I drink it every day and I share the recipe. And I said in the recipe, I said, if you, if you make this drink, just honor where it's coming from. It's not a Starbucks invented drink. It is coming from the Indian subcontinent.

    And it's, it has a meaning and a heritage.

    Janelle: And what does it have in it? The drink.

    Surabhi: So it's the way I make it. Every family makes it different. It's like chai, right? Every family makes different, but I, we do turmeric. Um, honey to sweeten it. Um, you can add sugar too, but I like honey cuz it's, and antibacterial and, um, saffron.

    saffron is really good for us, right? For our libido, for [01:32:30] blood flow, antioxidant

    Janelle: with that low libido, get that saffron, write it down

    Surabhi: and yeah, just sprinkle it in your , then your turmeric milk. And I use plant-based milk now, but you can use, I mean, dairy milk is nice cause it's got the fat too and the, the protein.

    But use soy milk for, well

    Janelle: essentially golden milk. Y'all comes from India. It does, yeah. Yeah. And um,

    Surabhi: It's important to just recognize the history and where things come from, so you're, you can honor it.

    Janelle: I love that. So we, I, I think I have a passion for travel and learning about other cultures. You have a, a passion for culture and language and its connection to, uh, different countries, the people.

    Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    Yeah. I love that. I know I can't wait. I hope we get to travel together and meet in person, obviously, but Yeah. Yes, it'd be, it'd be amazing to travel together.

    Surabhi: Let's do it. Yeah. Next year my goal is to actually come to Toronto, so. Nice.

    Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Janelle, for all of y'all listening.

    I know you love this conversation because it was [01:33:30] amazing and, uh, and we can't stop talking. We, we could go on forever , listen, we both have a gift for conversation. And so this conversation is, is, yeah, it could go on forever. And I think that if you benefited from hearing this, please share this with your community.

    Share this with your people because these things rarely get talked about. I've never had anybody on my podcast talking so, um, openly about these things, especially with sexual health. And I think it's important cuz we all have a pelvis and we all, um, have a relationship with sex. Whether we like it or not, it's, it's part of us.

    So thank you again for your time, for your energy, for your passion, and for your servitude. Um, lots of love to you. Absolutely.

    Yes. Thanks for having me. I wish everyone happy clitorises good vaginas and good sex.

Surabhi Veitch https://www.thepassionatephysio.ca
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